Where has all his oil Gone and randomly cuts out

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 26 Oct 2016, 18:07

Our friend has a 2.0hdi Citroen Berlingo.

We did a service on it about 6 weeks ago - oil and filters and lots of suspension work.

Its been running great ever since - now not well atall.

Little engine symbol is lit on dashboard and van cuts out dead after about 4 km. They have driven it about 40km like this - restart it , go 4 km , die , start again.

We checked the oil - just barely on bottom of dipstick

We put 1,5litres in , showed halfway between MIN and MAX, followed them up the road , no smoke or anything , died again.

Let it sit for 1 hour, oil at bottom of dipstick.

Is it the turbo ? Where is the oil going - and at that rate too ?

We suspect they drive it quite hard - maybe at 130km on motorway with full sized workers-type roofrack with ladders on too , but still......

No oil showing in the water.

Help great appreciated.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 26 Oct 2016, 23:03

Its either got to be burning it or its leaking out somewhere. Is there any sign of oil where its parked? You can burn quite a lot of oil without it noticeably smoking but I can't see it using that much without some sign of smoke. If the turbo seals were leaking that much the engine would probably run away.

Strange, I can only suggest you look under the car when its running with a bright torch and look for any signs of oil.

My C5 had an automatic cut out when the oil level got low, this could be the same which is why its stopping.

Peter

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 27 Oct 2016, 09:55

Hello Peter and thank you for the post.

This is a strange one.

Left the car for 2 hours, checked the oil, just covering the bottom of the dipstick.

Left it overnight - checked it this morning - just a tad below max - perfect. Mind you , we put 1.5 litres into it yesterday, so before that it was 1.5 litres short.

When you start the van , no symbols lit, 10 secs later - little picture of engine appears.

No oil leaks, no smoke - no clues.

Yep , know what you mean about the low oil level thing. We had a mini-digger with a Honda engine - worked perfectly. Took it to a friends and when going down the slope into his building it kept cutting out. Very puzzling at the time but finally figured it.

Anyway, back to the Berlingo, 2 hours should be plenty of time for the oil to get back into the sump, or at least a decent amount of oil, HOWEVER, as in all things mechanical , this could be a red herring.

They also put some diesel into it out of a jerry can.
We have asked them the following questions.

Was it diesel for sure ? YES
Was it recent diesel ? YES , less than a week since purchase.
Was it white diesel ? YES
Was the jerry can clean ? Possibly, it is used regularly for an old Merc, as the Merc's fuel guage is broken.

We realise that an old 190 Merc is like a tractor compared with a HDI, but surely the diesel filter in the HDI should do its job ?

We shall put it on our Lexia, which works less often than not and rarely manages to interrogate the ECU - a very annoying poor quality clone or maybe poor quality cable !!!

Thanks Again

Gibbo2286 · Unread post by **Gibbo2286** » 27 Oct 2016, 10:29

I had one like this, not a Citroen though, a customer had been using a piece of rag as an oil cap and it had fallen inside, all his oil was sitting in the rocker cover unable to drain down.

white exec · Unread post by **white exec** » 27 Oct 2016, 10:42

Does suggest that oil is struggling to get back to the sump.
Both the dipstick readings, and the engine cutting out (presumably an oil level sensor also reporting low sump level) indicate this. The oil is obviously not leaving the engine (leaks, burning off) or the dipstick reading wouldn't return to almost Full.
Might be worth a peer into the rocker cover, so see whether oil is lurking there in quantity. I don't know the block innards of the HDi intimately, but there usually isn't much between rocker and sump except an oil return-way. Sludge/mayo build-up causing a blockage?

Bick · Unread post by **Bick** » 27 Oct 2016, 13:03

I dont know why maybe because its a metal dipstick but those 2.0hdi engines are notorious for having dipsticks that lie. The only way to be sure you have a correct reading is a hot engine that has been allowed to cool for no longer than 10 minutes, any reading after that or on a cold engine will be incorrect.

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 27 Oct 2016, 14:01

Hello to all , hot engine , 10 minutes , oil filler cap off , correct oil level on dipstick.

Did Lexia on the injection , 3 faults - airflow - fuel pressure - short to diesel pump in tank.
Cleared faults, went for a spin (with diesel-filler cap off) - cut out many times . Each time between 2.5 and 4km. Ignition back on - listen to lift pump in tank - runs for longer the more km you do - starts straight up.

2 problems most likely. Oil breather to rocker bunged up and lift pump in tank not cutting in when driving.

Will check faults again to see which have returned.

Once again - thanks to all.

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 27 Oct 2016, 17:53

Back on the Lexia ,

"Temporary fault, Fuel high pressure monitoring. Lack of pressure (leak)"

Fault code is P1112,
Engine Speed 2665rpm,
Fuel Pressure 583 bar,
Fuel Pressure regulator open cycle ratio 97.3 %,
Regulator Current 1306 mA,
Fuel Temperature 31 degrees.

BSI also has Permanent Fault - EOBD or Engine ECU & Evaporator Sensor.

Any ideas - have cleared temporary faults and will check connections on the diesel lift pump. Is is worth looking at the rail sensor ?

No faults showing to do with the oil - thats a strange case.

As the owners put diesel in from a jerry-can, is it a good bet that something is knocking about near the pump in the tank ?

As always , any help greatly appreciated

Bick · Unread post by **Bick** » 27 Oct 2016, 18:50

Have a look at the in tank filter first - this can though loads of odd faults - good luck

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 27 Oct 2016, 19:07

Didn't know it had one - though you lifted the black plastic disc, undid the big plastic ring and lifted the pump out - complete.

Will have a look tomorrow - thanks for the info

Unread post by **RichardW** » 27 Oct 2016, 20:22

It will only have a lift pump if it's a Bosch injection. Failure of the pump will give the fault you are seeing. If it's a Siemens, then if there was some crap in the jerry can this may have blocked the fuel filter - which will also throw that fault code! Failure of the pressure regulator on the pump can give similar troubles, although this usually manifests itself by cutting out when you boot it.

There's nothing linked to the oil level except the oil pressure light - that's got nothing to do with the running problems.

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 28 Oct 2016, 08:32

Hello to all again.

Yes , our thoughts are leaning towards the pump.
You can hear the pump each time you turn on the ignition - just like our 406.

However, what is odd is after you drive for 4km, the car dies, turn off and turn on ignition, hear pump again, fires up straight away.
Surely the pump should have kept the diesel primed and should not run for so long after ignition off/on ?
Yes , we know the car goes through its checks and firing the pump is one of them, but shouldn't it (under normal conditions) just check, click, try to fire and find pressure resistance straight away ?

In this case, as the pump primes after ignition on, then the pump works - but why doesn't it cut-in and keep the diesel primed while driving ?

Sorry , lots of questions, its just that we had a bad experience with the 406 where Peugeot decided to change the pump and tank dimensions but not change the hole under the seat in the bodywork - the end result being that the pump on the PH2 Peugeot 406 does not fit through the hole in the bodywok !!!!

Unread post by **RichardW** » 28 Oct 2016, 10:13

There's no pressure switch on the low P circuit - the pump runs all the time the engine is running, if it stops, then the engine stops very quickly. It runs at key on in anticipation of a start attempt, but is knocked off after a few seconds if no attempt is made to crank, to save the battery. It re-starts as soon as you crank the engine. You'd need to have a look at the live data, and also the power the pump, to see if the ECU / relay is cutting the power, or if the pump is just stopping of its own accord.

Unread post by **Paul-R** » 28 Oct 2016, 10:44

This reminds me a bit of a problem that we had on our Xsara afew years ago (maybe 10). The car would cough a bit and then refuse to run properly. Sometimes it ran properly all day and other times it wouldn't restart.

I traced the power to the in-tank pump and found that it would run for about six seconds and then stop. I checked all sorts of things but in the end I got fed up with it and wired in a separate feed from an ignition controlled supply using a relay with a built-in fuse. Admittedly the pump would run continuously when the ignition was on but at least the engine would run properly. Ran it like that for ten years and was still working perfectly when we sold the car last month.

xsaras4ever · Unread post by **xsaras4ever** » 01 Nov 2016, 09:56

Hello again to all and thanks for the help.

We didn't touch the Berlingo all weekend.

This morning we cleaned every connection we could lay eyes on - plus removed all fuses and cleaned them too.

Checked ignition on and off about 5 times , pump activated each time.

Went for a run , passed the magic 4km mark but in the middle of congratulating ourselves and preparing our speech, it stuttered and died at 8km.

It had never stuttered before , just died.

Ignition off/on - drove another 4km - died.

Ignition off/on pump activated 5 times , ran the 7km home , left engine running, crawled under , heard pump running, banged tank with fist , pump note changed then back to normal, popped into the workshop for a screwdriver , Berlingo died while we were dashing back out to it. Didn't get to hear if pump stopped before engine died.

Live data might be a bit of a joke with our Lexia - seeing as it takes about 5 attempts plus a massive cable unplug/plug ritual to get it working. Sorry.

There are 4 wires to the pump - Black, Blue , Yellow and Green.

Some suggestions on net say run a wire to live feed with a bulb on it - if bulb dies before engine dies then power to pump is being cut. If bulb stays lit then its the pump itself.

Another suggestion which a lot of Berlingo owners seem to favour is to run a permanent live feed from ignition through a fuse to the pump.

We have had one of these pumps out before on a 406 and basically the pump has a plastic bowl on the bottom from where it sucks the diesel. If crud gets in there it can never really flow out unless you fill the car well above the level of the bowl and rock the car around a bit.

But the regularity of 4km at which the car dies points away from crud and more towards electrical.

Any advice , criticism or new ideas greatly appreciated.

French Car Forum

Where has all his oil Gone and randomly cuts out

Where has all his oil Gone and randomly cuts out

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone

Re: Where has all his oil Gone and randomly cuts out