Gold Sinker Mk1

[aerodynamica]

I've been getting a slightly wayward track at times over undulations that I'd normally first attribute to a balljoint but when I tested it with a bar a few weeks ago it seemet fine - I must have missed it. But in the mean time I'd noticed a kind of knocking at low speed and at heavy lock at the turn at the top of a ramp in multi storey car park. Since I'd dismissed a balljoint (and track rods) I supposed it must be the wishbone bushings but on close inspection today they're in pretty good condition with a good spring in both directions with the baljoint seperated. ANyway, a closer examination today revealed the NS balljoint was knocking so this was the main culprit after all. Changed and back at the car park ramp it is behaving.

As for the static! the car has standard fabric interior VSX pattern. It certainly does only seem to do this on dry days. Only oddity is that even in the garage sitting in the car for mere seconds still seems enough to charge up enough to give a shock. I might adopt your method for getting out though!

[myglaren]

It can also be somewhat dependent on the material your clothing is made of - synthetics and wool generally the worst.

[CitroJim]

Good work on the front suspension front!

leather seats are the answer to the static issue


You're lucky the rear pushrod pins are free Graeme They can be a real 'mare if they're not...

Must check mine...

[RichardW]

You're lucky the rear pushrod pins are free Graeme They can be a real 'mare if they're not...

I can attest to that

I can also confirm that if they won't come out, it is *just* possible to remove the arm with the push rod still attached to deal with it on the floor

[CitroJim]

I can also confirm that if they won't come out, it is *just* possible to remove the arm with the push rod still attached to deal with it on the floor

Now that is very good to know Richard

[aerodynamica]

That is good to know!! I'll be deaing with the arm bearings in the next few weeks. I notice there is that plastic tube inside the arm between the bearins themselves - If I'm using the drift out method to remove the inner bearing races would that mean this will have to be destroyed to reach them? I'm thinking the only way to reach the edge of the bearing race is 'through' the plastic tube. I suppose with one race removed the tube can slide out. I've done the job on CXs but not on Xantia and although the Xantia appears (from diagrams) to have a more open inner space of the arm casting, it does have this plastic tube that I'm certain CXs never did have. Plastic tube aside, it does look like the bearing races can be drifted out from the opposite end easier than on the CX without having to resort to welding a little bar across it.

[CitroJim]

Yep, it does have the plastic tube Graeme...

Luckily, I've not had to do any just yet but have a set of bearings in stock ready... And the special tools (intended for the BX) to drive the bearings in and out which I've not yet had the pleasure of using - yet!

[aerodynamica]

Right there's a special tool? is it some kind of expanding dowel? I did originally get the CX ones out by drifting them from the other end but it was difficult. The Xantia ones look a bit easier from the diagram but I always tyr to go in prepared. Incidentally where did you get your bearing sets from?

[Mandrake]

See my old post in the following thread on how to do the rear arm bearings:

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... 52#p344888

It's actually rather easy to remove the old plastic spacer with just a large flat blade screw driver and a hammer - the new bearings should be supplied with a new plastic tube.

This makes drifting out the old bearings very easy.

[aerodynamica]

Ah nice thanks, yes it looks easier than the CX, not to mention the anti roll bar being less troublesome to remove (the CX rear arb can be problematic....)

Where would you recommend getting the bearing kits from? I was going to contact AEP on monday but maybe there's another source.

[Mandrake]

I've been getting a slightly wayward track at times over undulations that I'd normally first attribute to a balljoint but when I tested it with a bar a few weeks ago it seemet fine - I must have missed it. But in the mean time I'd noticed a kind of knocking at low speed and at heavy lock at the turn at the top of a ramp in multi storey car park. Since I'd dismissed a balljoint (and track rods) I supposed it must be the wishbone bushings but on close inspection today they're in pretty good condition with a good spring in both directions with the baljoint seperated. ANyway, a closer examination today revealed the NS balljoint was knocking so this was the main culprit after all. Changed and back at the car park ramp it is behaving.

The reason I ask, is I think I have the same problem as you except on the right hand side.

There is a knock that has gradually got worse over the last year on the right hand side but it usually only does it when hitting a bump on a a sharp lock - more often on a right lock. I feel it on the steering wheel as well. It's getting quite bad now.

Lower arm bushes look OK, droplinks have been done, outer track rod end has been done, inner track rod joint has not been done so could be a suspect I suppose.

Richard and I have tried to test the joint with a pry bar etc on several occasions now and cannot get it to exhibit any slack, we had an attempt to get the joint out to replace it but its well seized/rusted into the hub and we were unable to shift it, and in the process the slots in the joint are completely mullered and no longer fit the removal tool, so the only hope of getting it out is completely removing the hub from the car and welding a giant nut to the bottom of the joint!

Funny thing is when I got my last MOT the guy commented on some play somewhere in the front right suspension - he said they could hear it clicking when they rocked it with the hand brake on up on the hoist but they couldn't identify where it was coming from and thus didn't put it as an advisory, but he did talk to me about it. On talking to him and discussing what I'd already ruled out he also seemed pretty sure it wasn't the lower balljoint and seemed to think it was in the strut top ?! I can't really see how it could be the strut top but this noise really starting to annoy me.

So I am mystified about what it could be. I think it can only be either the inner track rod end or steering rack mount (although the steering rack mount seems OK) or the lower balljoint, even though nobody seems to be able to prove it's at fault. The fact that the flange on the joint is completely buggered now making removal a major hassle makes me reluctant to go to all that trouble only to find its not faulty!

It's getting a bit late in the year to tackle that kind of "might put the car off the road" problem so it may have to wait until next spring. I'm not equipped for this sort of difficult job at home (no welder or giant vice etc) and I don't want the car to end up stranded somewhere else like Richards.

[Mandrake]

Ah nice thanks, yes it looks easier than the CX, not to mention the anti roll bar being less troublesome to remove (the CX rear arb can be problematic....)

Where would you recommend getting the bearing kits from? I was going to contact AEP on monday but maybe there's another source.

Last time I did this job was 10 years ago on the other side of the world so even if I recalled where I bought the kit from it wouldn't do you any good. I vaguely remember it was an SKF bearing kit but I'm not even sure on that. I do remember it came with a new plastic spacer though - make sure the kit has that as its almost impossible to reuse the old one as most methods of bearing removal (especially my easy method) relies on destroying the spacer.

[aerodynamica]

Hi thanks, I have the bearing kit now. Probably tackle that little job tomorrow

I'm just thinking about your knocking noise - there is one other possibility in the steering rack - the pinion plunger / spring. I have heard of this sticking in GSs and CXs (rare manual steering ones) where the solution was to hear the spring plunger end cap until it popped back out to press the rack and pinion firmly together again. Not sure if the Xantia would suffer this same fate (and certaily non of my CXs or GSA ever did) but it's one other possibility!

[CitroJim]

It's a heck of a strong spring in a Xantia rack Graeme and I'd be surprised but always worth a check where everything else has failed to resolve the issue...

You know how strong it is when you try to swap a pinion valve in-situ...

All the best with the bearing replacement

[aerodynamica]

You're probably right Jim, Well it's a thought!

Anyway the arm bearings are done - took quite a long time today despite because of two problems: one the Xantia ABS sensors and two, the usually reassuring discovery that the arm bearings had previously been done so the car was cared for etc... wrong! Sometimes previous work is the cause of your woes!!

So the ABS sensor was totally immovable - in fact the thing was moving but it was the actual core part of the sensor was moving within the thicker metal part of the sensor and that looked bad. I opted to remove the caliper and disk to try and drift the sensor out from the outside but it looked more like the sensor was going to melt like plastiscine so opted to simply disconnect the sensor in the subframe and feed it out still attached to the arm - all went well then.

Arm out

and looking at the outer thrust washers of the arm bearings they actually looked ok huh?

clean and straight - but thenI spied the other side..

that's how it looked - the rubber seal all pinched, the thrust washer (and hence the bearings) were wel off-center so at least one side was gubbed.

So after the usual arm bearing removal and initial clean up of the bits I found the usual thing of all the bearing rollers falling out and such but I was initially reassured to find the huge amount of grease packed in it looked like someone had done the bearings before. At only 77K miles I'd wondered if it would be the factory parts fitted but at 23 years old, Old Katy has had some attention in her time.

Good thing you'd think?

Not a bit of it as I discovered one side of the bearings (the most wrecked set) when cleaned up revealed that the bearing rache was missing some big chunks of metal and the machined inner part of the arm had a set of big nasty gouges in it where it looks like someone who didn't know how you remove the old bearing race had chiseled at the outward side of the bearing race/ arm to (I don't know) shatter the race to remove it but had instead wrecked the inner arm making it hard to now remove the race properly as it was all burred .
Here's what I found

So the only option I could think of was to get the dremel out and grind back the burrs until it was possible to remove the bearing race.
Here it's ground down but the big dings can't be fixed. It looks worse here

And finally the first bearing race could be pressed in after cleaning up the messed up inner arm .

The other side was totally routine and in reasonable condition but this one arm with this find and the previous ABS sensor issue really delayed the job. I was half thinking of only doing one side - this being what I reckoned was the worst but with the anti roll bar out and everything I cautiously tackled other side and found the bearings to be in pretty good condition - both sets of bearings were still fully intact in the bearing shells but obviousy changed at the same time as the other side as the same kind of grease was used and the bearings were SKF with a metal bearing cage. Anyway the side looked ok but the bearing races had visible surface impurity - you could see the short path where each roller had been moving back and forth on the races and although there was no detectable (by feel) wear on the races I thought if I'm coming this far and I have a full bearing kit here I might as well replace the bearings and races all the same .

So the left side was much quicker and easier to change and now the full set are done.


Everything refitted, torqued etc and brakes fully bled I found that the rear ride height was too high. I reckoned it was due to the rear anti roll bar having so much fore-aft movement before it is tightened that changed the position relative to the height corrector (?) but I had refitted it in a measured 'middle' position with both rear arms held at the same position before tightening in sequence that I thought would have it the same as before but someting must have 'went' during this... Anyway readjusted down by an inch, drove home and found the rear end to be noticibly softer and the steering wheel is now completely straight when driving so looks like it was all worth it and Old Katy is driving straight and true once more!