Berlingo to 306 Dw8 engine swap

[spider]

I'd take the top belt cover off and insert the pin in the bellhousing / flywheel then see where the cam and pump sprocket are.

The design of this is like the TUD unit (not like the XUD one) in that the timing is more or less fixed, the moving pulley bolts are simply so the belt tension does not disturb the timing as such (difficult to explain) as the hubs are fixed but not the sprockets (hence the small movement)

If you did not want to go to that length although that is quick / easy and also I'd say remove one bolt from each sprocket to just check they are roughly in about the middle area of the 'length' of their movement. If the sprocket is jammed up at one end or the other of the length then its not correct.

Other causes are air ingress. Bubbles in fuel are not great for smooth running. Common 'air intake' points on the DW8 are the filter lid itself, the primer button (as its part of the filter base assembly) and the pipe clips. One thing that can work (temporarily to test, it never lasts long) is a blob of grease around any suspect unions / joins. This can temporarily prevent air ingress for a very short time, long enough to determine where the problem may be.

You can replace the clips yes, or the pipework. I would need to see a pic if you're not sure what you need.

The other cause and something the DW8 can suffer from is a jamming EGR valve. The 'common fix' is to remove and plug its vacuum pipe, preventing it opening = preventing it jamming as they cake up on this engine quite a bit unfortunately it seems. However this would only work if its not jammed open. You'd have to remove it and check it is actually closed if going down this path. Note: Do not unplug any electrical connections to it, as it will log a silent code about this, but without any vacuum the valve cannot operate.

My suggestions are to (as above) :

1. Whip the top/middle covers of the timing belt. Insert crankpin and check that the cam / pump are where they should be.
2. Check the belt has not come loose ( ! )
3.At this stage if all appears well, remove a single bolt from each sprocket to just determine that they are not at one end of the sprocket.
4. Blob of grease around suspect air pipe connectors.

[General Lee]

Some great info there. It's interesting that you mention the erg. Is it possible that I have mixed up some vacuum pipes when putting it back together? The vacuum system was different between the berlingo and Peugeot so I had to swap it over.

I will try the grease first as it is easiest but now have a POA for the weekend. Thank you!

[spider]

You're welcome.

EGR ? No not really.

From memory there is the vacuum solenoid valve itself (with an electrical plug in it) this will live on the bulkhead area or somewhere around / behind the battery or servo typically. These are general placements.

There will be a small bore pipe from the servo main pipe (pipe between vacuum pump on end of camshaft to servo) to this solenoid valve, so if you cannot see it, start at the servo and look for the small bore pipe

From the solenoid valve, a piece of pipe (its just a simple on / off on these not regulated as such) will lead to the valve itself. Later models (unlikely on 306) may also have an electrical plug on the valve too.

That's about it for the EGR layout on these. Starts at the servo or vacuum pump area (a small bore pipe) , goes to the solenoid valve (with an electrical multiplug on it, probably only 2 pins) and from there to the valve itself.

Note on grease: Its only a very temporary measure, it does not last very long. I have used it previously. Be aware I'm not sure on the long term effects of grease on rubber hoses and the like.

[General Lee]

I just tried the grease there and the bubbles have stopped but it made no difference to the running of the car.
I had a look at the other pump and I get what you mean about the pulley. The timing peg hole is on the hub of the shaft and the pulley is free to rotate sightly on the hub if the 3 bolts are opened.
I never opened these bolts when doing the timing. The belt felt tought between the camshaft and injector pump but there was more tension on the tensioner side of the belt between the tensioner and camshaft. Is it necessary to do this?

I will go through your our troubleshooting points above at the weekend. It's sounding like the timing could be out or even the belt could be loose from what your saying...

On a side note I couldn't find a square door handle shaft and the 3/8 drive won't fit in the tensioner so I got a M12 (I think) bolt and bent about 20mm of the end of it @ 90° in the vice. I got the grinder out and squared it off. Worked a treat!

[Goc3k]

Spider is well away on solving your running problems, and like he says I'd commit to saying your timing is simply too far retarded, since you've eliminated air ingress as the issue. Symptons of too far retarded timing are: slow to fire up & smokey yet low on power with higher than usual EGT's.

Certainly go back and check the timing holes still line up, and that the belt is tensioned correctly. The pump mount also has quite a bit of adjustment in it, and possibly it has just been upset a bit when you were swapping pumps around (tilting the pump toward the engine / away from the engine will advance / retard the timing respectively). I'd personally give this a try first if you ever separated the pump bracket and pump itself (I assume so). This applies to the electronic pumps with ecu controlled advance and the old mechanical pumps, putting an electric pump back say 5 degrees too far retarded will cause poor running and vastly reduce the range of potential advancement the ECU has, don't know the exact technicalities on the DW8 but I have had a a similar problem re-assembling an old diesel with a VP37 pump.

Hopefully someone will correct me if this is not the case though!

[General Lee]

I left the pump and mounting bracket together when removing both pumps as I didn't want to upset the pullies on them. I made sure that it was clean (dowels etc.) where the brackets are seated before reassembly. If the troubleshooting points don't work above then I'll have to delve deeper into it. Thanks for your reply!

[Goc3k]

Ah, if you didn't separate the pump from the mount then that's probably fine. It doesn't have anything to do with altering the pully location on the input shaft though, as the pulley (and thus pump internals) stay in position, while you move the pump body back and forth on the bracket, which is what alters the static timing.

Hope you get it sorted out after coming so far

[ekjdm14]

I'd put hunting/smoking down to air bubbles. Be careful with the Lucas pump I've heard that air in the fuel can cause them to run away, something to do with hydraulic governors, not 100%. I do know our ZX (bear in mind XUD) with Lucas pump did the same rough running trick when there was an air lock but that didn't run away thankfully just hunted like a petrol car running on choke

EDIT- oops didn't realise there was a second page of posts, reply was to the last one on page 1!

[spider]

I can't see how it would run away too much with air as even if the gov jammed (unlikely) then it would be eating so much air it would not likely run that high anyway.

[ekjdm14]

I struggled with the concept myself, but it was something I heard from an old diesel mechanic regarding Lucas/CAV pumps & it stuck in my mind. May be true, may not but I suppose it's worth being on the ball for just in case (switching off should be enough in the event should it ever happen, as it'd be running on fuel through the pump not oil).

Anyway now I've realised I was replying to an old post before, I'll ask is there any progress on sorting out the rough running yet? wonder if it was timing related, and if the OP ended up replacing the injector washers in the end...

[General Lee]

Damn- I posted a lengthy reply a few days ago and it never sent on my phone! Pissed off cos I put a bit of effort into it and I was hoping for a reply!

Took off the covers - serious task in the tight space!
Belt felt a small bit slack but nothing major between camshaft and injector pump.
Opened a bolt on the injector pump pulley
Bolt was nearly touching the pulley.
Slackened the tensioner and IP pulley bolts moved the IP pulley forward a tooth and checked the timing. Bolts had gone to the opposite side in the pulley so opened the cam shaft pulley bolts and worked between the tensioner camshaft pulley and IP pulley to get the bolts fairly centered. Put it back together without the covers and started it.

Engine had vastly improved but there was still a slight hesitation/miss.

I think that due to me not opening the cam bolts I didn't get the right tension between the camshaft and injector pump and the belt was sort of whipping when missing/running making it not run right.

The story doesn't end here. I now think I may have gone too tight with the belt. When I look at the other engine the square hole in the tensioner is at 7o clock in relation to the bolt hole in the pulley. I know it's not going to be exact but can anyone tell me what they think there tensioner is set to? The phone is a horrible thing for research and my laptop is broken. What was the general rule of thumb for belt tension? Ability to twist it at 45° on the longest run of the belt?

[ekjdm14]

I've never seen the need to put any "tension" as such in timing belts when replacing them as provided the pulleys are aligned (which they will be, unless it's a Rover 300TDI, my technique with manual tensioners (although I can't recommend it since it's not "correct" procedure and relies on feel as much as anything!) has always been to just take up the slack & a then a tiny nip more, then turn the engine 4 or 5 rotations, time it up again, re-check timing and make sure the belt has no slack on the longest run.

Obviously too tight is as bad if not worse than too loose as you'll wear both belt & bearings faster and possibly damage the belt internally if it's really really tight. (usually a sign of the belt being too tight will be a whining sound from the stressed bearings when running)

[General Lee]

Another disappointment on this phone! Another masterpiece ruined!

Adjusted the timing again. Took the stress off the belt. Started her up. Smokey as hell. Drove it hard to clear it out and it worked well. Still hunting slightly though.

Couldn't find the overflow level plug for the gearbox. I put about 3 litres oil through the nylon plug at the top Just to get me going. Where's the overflow located? I found the drain plug alright...

Thanks for your help Thusfar

[spider]

Transmission holds 2 litres. In theory some models of the BE box on these hold 1.9 but I've always put 2 litres in from a full drain (as in when its been out)#

3 litres is a bit too much ( ! ) you may cause driveshaft seals to fail with the potential excess pressure.

The level / filler plug (you can fill via the top as its less messy as you have) is on the outer side on the tin extension housing, typically the lower corner, one bolt is a lot bigger than the rest and has a copper washer behind it.

Pic here > http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=39725
Note: This is for a slightly different box, so the drain plug may not be there on your model (bigger engines have it on the diff sometimes as per that pic) but the level plug is about right for your transmission as you should have the BE3/5 trans with the DW8, the same gearbox as fitted to the earlier XUD based 306's as well.

[Hell Razor5543]

You also need to make sure you use the correct oil (anything else will cause the gearbox to fail). IIRC the right oil for the BE3 and ML5T gearboxes is BV75W80, available from GSF for around £7 per litre.