The head is off, revealing an interesting story...

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 05 Dec 2004, 01:18

What a bloody nightmare. I finally summoned up the courage to attack the car again, and I've got the head off at last. Very tight and very unwieldly.
Now I've always strongly believed that XUD head gaskets go for only one of three reasons: 1) Continued overheating from blocked radiator or water loss situation, 2) Inadequate bleeding after coolant change, or, 3) A horrible cheap 'cardboard style' gasket having been used, which has dissolved. When mine went I was most suprised, as it didn't seem to fit this pattern, and as the car had had a Citroen fitted replacement head I assumed an OE head gasket would have been fitted.
Once I got the head off it was apparent that the garage had done precisely what Richard warned against, and damaged the HG when lowering the head into place. There was a split in the metal ring section around number 4 cylinder, where the gasket had obviously been bent. It was easy to see that this had been leaking slightly for some time, until it had eroded a passage into the waterway. It did not appear to be an OE type HG either.
SO, it should just be a case of getting out the stanley knife blade, and reassembling with new head gasket and bolts. But a few questions.
1) What were the OE brands of headgasket and headbolts used? I only want to do this once, so would like to use the pukka parts. I have had good experiences with Curty Payen in the past.
2) Has anyone had to buy any of the braided coolant pipes before? On some the braiding has been compromised, and I'd like to know how much they cost. I've already got on the list the little pipe filter out of the turbo oil pipe (which I stood on [:(!]) and the breather pipe that goes to the cam cover, which split. Nonwithstanding the obvious new timingbelt and water pump I might as well fit.
So there it is. I can hardly believe the gasket lasted so long (4 years and 50k miles), but I guess my 'enthusiastic' driving finished it off. Bastard garages! Wish I knew how much the job cost...

Stuart McB · Unread post by **Stuart McB** » 05 Dec 2004, 01:34

That breather pipe from the cam cover to the oil filler, if thats the one you mean only costs a couple of quid from Citroen them selves. Bought one last year for my ZX TD and was surprised but how little it cost. Took my credit card just incase.

bernie · Unread post by **bernie** » 05 Dec 2004, 01:49

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonathan_dyane

2) Has anyone had to buy any of the braided coolant pipes before? On some the braiding has been compromised, and I'd like to know how much they cost.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Very dear,[:(!]
I replaced the 2 shorter ones.
From memory (52 y.o.)[xx(][xx(] only available from Citroen dealer, one was £19 and the other £35 ish.[:(]
I dread to think of the price of the long one.[xx(]
There are 2 versions and the cut off was mid 1992, right where mine was.[V]

Unread post by **alan s** » 05 Dec 2004, 03:23

With headbolts, it's a case of "Yez pays yer money and yez takes yer chances" because we did a 16V up a couple of years back now and discovered the Citroen packaged headbolts had what appeared to be like stress fractures across the heads of them. About 90% were so bad that they could have sheared the head off themselves when tightened without warning.
GSF found me a set of aftermarket ones that had no splits and have worked a treat. Just examin them closely as I understand there's only a couple of manufacturers of them anyway and we were just unlucky.
Alan S

Unread post by **RichardW** » 05 Dec 2004, 16:12

Get the gasket from GSF - it's a Meillor(sp) one which is the OE supplier - but much cheaper. I think they might also do metal sandwich one which is even stronger if you're particularly bent on 'enthusiastic' driving. I used the head bolts from GSF - again no probs, and not too dear. The feeling when they stretch whilst you're doing up is most odd though...! Although expensive, it might be worth doing the braided hoses whilst you've got some room, othewise they will last about 2 weeks, and you'll be faced with taking the O/S drive shaft out to change them.

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 05 Dec 2004, 16:54

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Stuart McB

That breather pipe from the cam cover to the oil filler, if thats the one you mean only costs a couple of quid from Citroen them selves. Bought one last year for my ZX TD and was surprised but how little it cost. Took my credit card just incase.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Remarkable! Thanks for that Stuart.

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 05 Dec 2004, 16:59

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by bernie

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by jonathan_dyane

2) Has anyone had to buy any of the braided coolant pipes before? On some the braiding has been compromised, and I'd like to know how much they cost.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Very dear,[:(!]
I replaced the 2 shorter ones.
From memory (52 y.o.)[xx(][xx(] only available from Citroen dealer, one was £19 and the other £35 ish.[:(]
I dread to think of the price of the long one.[xx(]
There are 2 versions and the cut off was mid 1992, right where mine was.[V]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Oh joy. That was what I was fearing. I shall be examining the hoses *very* carefully today. And of course my car is 1992 too...

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 05 Dec 2004, 17:01

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by alans

With headbolts, it's a case of "Yez pays yer money and yez takes yer chances" because we did a 16V up a couple of years back now and discovered the Citroen packaged headbolts had what appeared to be like stress fractures across the heads of them. About 90% were so bad that they could have sheared the head off themselves when tightened without warning.
GSF found me a set of aftermarket ones that had no splits and have worked a treat. Just examin them closely as I understand there's only a couple of manufacturers of them anyway and we were just unlucky.
Alan S
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Well there's one long treasured myth blown away... I shall buy GSF and examine closely. Thanks Alan.

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 05 Dec 2004, 17:11

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by RichardW

Get the gasket from GSF - it's a Meillor(sp) one which is the OE supplier - but much cheaper. I think they might also do metal sandwich one which is even stronger if you're particularly bent on 'enthusiastic' driving. I used the head bolts from GSF - again no probs, and not too dear. The feeling when they stretch whilst you're doing up is most odd though...! Although expensive, it might be worth doing the braided hoses whilst you've got some room, othewise they will last about 2 weeks, and you'll be faced with taking the O/S drive shaft out to change them.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
That is good to know. If the metal sandwich type is superior why is that not the standard replacement? I replaced an AX 1.5D HG once, and the Citroen-supplied gasket which the owner gave me to use was the metal sandwich type.
I don't drive like a mad man or anything, but I do like to use the power when it is called for, particularly to race past lesser petrol cars on hills [}:)]
Interestingly, when I came to do the HG on my mothers old AX 1.4D, I got a very cheap 'Powertrain' packaged one from Partco. When I got it out the wrapper I discovered it was in fact a Meillor... I know for a fact that would not happen if it went in for a BX TD one [:(]
The hoses are indeed a dillema. I shall make a decision later today...

Unread post by **Jon** » 06 Dec 2004, 13:36

The metal sandwich gasket is only available for the 19TD, not the 17TD.
The 1.7TD gasket, if supplied by GSF will be OE Meillor or Elring. N11130 for the 2 notch and N11132 for the 3 notch.

jonathan_dyane · Unread post by **jonathan_dyane** » 06 Dec 2004, 21:03

Cheers Jon, I shall be investing in a 2 notcher shortly...