2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Moderator: RichardW
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
- Location: Geilo, Norway
- My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]
2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
My recently bought 90hp 2.0 HDi 206 often makes a clinking or pinging noise when the accelerator is pressed or released. I can produce the sound reliably by blipping the accelerator pedal slightly with the car idling. I'm pretty sure its coming from the EGR valve: if I pull the vacuum hose off the EGR at idle it makes the same sound as the valve slams shut, and if I unplug the electrical connector on the solenoid valve that drives the EGR then the noise goes away completely. The car drives fine, no MIL, no smoke, good power. So, not a big deal, but I was wondering firstly if its a sign that the valve is failing, and second is it worth pulling it off to clean it up? I would pull it off just for a look, but its hidden away down the back of the engine and I suspect that it would be a pig of a job...
Is the valve supposed to be damped to control the rate at which it opens and closes, either mechanically or pneumatically? I imagine that a lack of damping could cause it to become noisy if it was slamming shut.
Any advice much appreciated!
Is the valve supposed to be damped to control the rate at which it opens and closes, either mechanically or pneumatically? I imagine that a lack of damping could cause it to become noisy if it was slamming shut.
Any advice much appreciated!
- spider
- Posts: 3949
- Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
- Location: Derby.
- My Cars: Soon, I hope...
- x 77
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
I'm not sure there is any damping on it as such if there is it will be in the valve itself I guess. I do not think its a variable valve it is either fully open or shut (I could be wrong)
A 'silent' code will be stored if it detects the solenoid has been unplugged (open circuit) but no 'K' light will come on usually for this.
From a personal standpoint I'm half tempted to say leave the electrical connector on (so it think it is OK) and disconnect and plug the vacuum pipe.
Regarding cleaning it, there are some alleged EGR cleaning sprays around although I'm wary of spraying that kind of material into the intake area given diesels will like to run on anything they can squash and burn
It may be worth you removing and cleaning it off the car then refitting or perhaps just seeking a replacement ? If you wanted to go this route.
PS, Welcome to F.C.F
A 'silent' code will be stored if it detects the solenoid has been unplugged (open circuit) but no 'K' light will come on usually for this.
From a personal standpoint I'm half tempted to say leave the electrical connector on (so it think it is OK) and disconnect and plug the vacuum pipe.
Regarding cleaning it, there are some alleged EGR cleaning sprays around although I'm wary of spraying that kind of material into the intake area given diesels will like to run on anything they can squash and burn
It may be worth you removing and cleaning it off the car then refitting or perhaps just seeking a replacement ? If you wanted to go this route.
PS, Welcome to F.C.F
Andy.
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
I use the Forte EGR / Turbo cleaner spray on the Berlingo once every 12 months or so when it starts to make a noise.spider wrote: Regarding cleaning it, there are some alleged EGR cleaning sprays around although I'm wary of spraying that kind of material into the intake area given diesels will like to run on anything they can squash and burn :
The spray seems to work, as the rough noise it makes (growling at about 2200rpm on overrun or a light throttle) goes away.
All the engine does when you spray the stuff down it is have a mad fit of diesel knock, I'd not worry about it running-on or doing a diesel - overrun at all. Trying te spray stuff is the cheapest and easiet way to start with..
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
The electrovalve that controls the EGR valve uses OCR pulses to open & close it rapidly, the ECU changes the OCR % pulses to vary the amount of opening so it can open anywhere between 0% & 100% open.spider wrote:I'm not sure there is any damping on it as such if there is it will be in the valve itself I guess. I do not think its a variable valve it is either fully open or shut (I could be wrong)
You took the words right out my mouth.spider wrote: From a personal standpoint I'm half tempted to say leave the electrical connector on (so it think it is OK) and disconnect and plug the vacuum pipe.
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Fix the damn thing.
I'm getting really fed up with advice being given that just gives the go-ahead to run with faulty emissions equipment.
It's not ok. Keep your filthy fumes to yourself. If you can't afford to run the car as it is meant to be, get one you can afford...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
I'm getting really fed up with advice being given that just gives the go-ahead to run with faulty emissions equipment.
It's not ok. Keep your filthy fumes to yourself. If you can't afford to run the car as it is meant to be, get one you can afford...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Last edited by Northern_Mike on 16 May 2015, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10436
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1290
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Ditto Mike
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
- Location: Geilo, Norway
- My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Absolutely, and I'm not going to put anything through the engine in an attempt to clean it either. I will either leave it alone for now or pull it off and sort it out, whether that's just cleaning it up or replacing it. As far as I know there's not a lot wrong with it apart from a bit of noise. I've just changed the rear axle, rear transverse arms, front springs, front control arms, drop links, track rod ends, a front wheel bearing, and had a 'mare replacing a glow plug (diy broken tip removal, which I will write up at some point), so I'm not in a hurry to mess about with it if it can just keep on tinkling away for another few thousand miles.
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10436
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1290
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Agree with the cleaner, don't trust it myself but many do and like Mike swear by it.
I would say take it off and give it a good clean is the way to go
I would say take it off and give it a good clean is the way to go
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Forte's stuff (Turbo cleaner) is well received by the VAG owners of older cars with VNT turbos on them. The vanes stick and cause overboost errors. Using this Forte stuff seems to cure that and EGR errors. Of course, I doubt that it is as good as stripping and cleaning it buy it's a lot less ballache if it works.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
- Location: Geilo, Norway
- My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Ok, screw clamp for the flexi pipe ordered. I'll pull it some rainy day when I get a chance...
- Gibbo_Wirral
- Posts: 183
- Joined: 17 Jul 2013, 14:34
- Location: Formby, West Lancs.
- My Cars: Peugeot 206 Sport 2L HDI
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
If it really was churning out "filthy fumes" then wouldn't it fail the MOT on emissions?Northern_Mike wrote:Fix the damn thing.
I'm getting really fed up with advice being given that just gives the go-ahead to run with faulty emissions equipment.
It's not ok. Keep your filthy fumes to yourself. If you can't afford to run the car as it is meant to be, get one you can afford...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Peugeot Planet Diagnostics: Wirral, Merseyside, Lancashire, Cheshire, North Wales
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
- Location: Geilo, Norway
- My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
As far as I know, the only MOT emissions test for diesels is particulates (smoke); there is no test for NOx emissions.
- Stickyfinger
- (Donor 2016)
- Posts: 10436
- Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 21:05
- Location: Somset my lovleee
- My Cars: Xantia V6 ACTIVA 3ltr 24v Manual p1
Xm 2.1TD Ph2 Exclusive
AX, little Daffodil
SAXO White Mk1. Sally - x 1290
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
Italian "Tune-Up" time ....take it out (check your oil water)....and give the thing a right good chaving....run it up to max revs a few times after getting it hot.....give it a good thashing for a bit, they love it !
Gibbo_Wirral wrote:If it really was churning out "filthy fumes" then wouldn't it fail the MOT on emissions?Northern_Mike wrote:Fix the damn thing.
I'm getting really fed up with advice being given that just gives the go-ahead to run with faulty emissions equipment.
It's not ok. Keep your filthy fumes to yourself. If you can't afford to run the car as it is meant to be, get one you can afford...
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Alasdair
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
Activa, the Moose Rider
3x C5x7 Steering racks and counting
-
- Posts: 20
- Joined: 15 May 2015, 20:08
- Location: Geilo, Norway
- My Cars: 2010 Peugeot 308 SW 1.6 HDi 110 FAP (9HZ)
2003 Suzuki Grand Vitara XL-7 2.0 HDi 110 (RHW)
2007 Peugeot Partner Combi 1.6 HDi 90 (9HX) [sold]
2004 Peugeot 206 SW 2.0 HDi XSi (RHY) [sold]
1987 Renault 5 1.0 [scrapped]
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
So I pulled it off and had a look; not easy. To get anything approaching sensible access to the left side EGR valve nut, you really need to remove the breather pipe, induction manifold elbow and EGR flexi pipe. The only way I could get a decent grip on that left side nut was to grind flats onto a 10mm short socket and hammer an 11mm spanner onto it. If I had done this first of all, before touching it with a ring spanner, I might have had a chance of getting the nut off. As it was, I ended up having to grind a segment out of the nut with a dremel, then knock the nut off using an 18" screwdriver as a cold chisel so I could do the hammering up by the battery box.
The inlet manifold was pretty well gunged up with tarry sooty crap. I cleaned out the elbow and the bits of the manifold that I could reach, but taking the manifold off is just too much of a hassle. There wasn't enough gunk in there to significantly obstruct the airflow. In contrast, the EGR valve was almost clean - only a light coating of dry soot like you would find in any exhaust component. Same with the flexi pipe. I think the heat and flow in the valve is enough to keep it clear, and the tarry stuff mostly gets deposited once the exhaust gas mixes with incoming air and cools down. I cleaned the valve with mr muscle oven cleaner since I had it off, but I didn't expect it to make any difference, and it hasn't. The valve itself seems fine (moves freely and moving parts came up shiny) and the actuator held vacuum well if I opened the valve manually and held a finger over the hose barb.
My advice: if you have a rattly EGR and no other symptoms, don't worry about it. It looks like the valve is (very) unlikely to fail open mechanically, and if the solenoid valve fails open then you can get home just by disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum hose.
The inlet manifold was pretty well gunged up with tarry sooty crap. I cleaned out the elbow and the bits of the manifold that I could reach, but taking the manifold off is just too much of a hassle. There wasn't enough gunk in there to significantly obstruct the airflow. In contrast, the EGR valve was almost clean - only a light coating of dry soot like you would find in any exhaust component. Same with the flexi pipe. I think the heat and flow in the valve is enough to keep it clear, and the tarry stuff mostly gets deposited once the exhaust gas mixes with incoming air and cools down. I cleaned the valve with mr muscle oven cleaner since I had it off, but I didn't expect it to make any difference, and it hasn't. The valve itself seems fine (moves freely and moving parts came up shiny) and the actuator held vacuum well if I opened the valve manually and held a finger over the hose barb.
My advice: if you have a rattly EGR and no other symptoms, don't worry about it. It looks like the valve is (very) unlikely to fail open mechanically, and if the solenoid valve fails open then you can get home just by disconnecting and plugging the EGR vacuum hose.
- spider
- Posts: 3949
- Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 14:28
- Location: Derby.
- My Cars: Soon, I hope...
- x 77
- Contact:
Re: 2.0 HDi noisy EGR valve
An older model would not have said controls so it would 'pollute' just as much as not having EGR. Having said that the mess the EGR can create inside the intake manifold (take a look inside a late XUD or DW8 or TUD5) is astonishing. Although its reducing NOx emissions (see next quote) after a few years you've restricted the inlet a little bit with all the 'sludge' so you are possibly buring more fuel due to the reduced air effect (similar to having a dirty air filter) , YMMV though this is just in my personal opinion. , having seen the stuff that can come out of a HDi on a manual 'regen' too I'm sort of 50/50 on a DPF as it may just be 'saving' the pollution to be released later ? , not to mention the nasty chemicals needed for the tank too.Northern_Mike wrote:Fix the damn thing.
I'm getting really fed up with advice being given that just gives the go-ahead to run with faulty emissions equipment.
It's not ok. Keep your filthy fumes to yourself. If you can't afford to run the car as it is meant to be, get one you can afford...
< Extra smilies as this is all just in my opinion and is a friendly reply.
I think its just an EU requirement rather than any MOT related test. This is (as far as I know) why diesel EGR started to make an appearance around 1997 or so.StuY wrote:As far as I know, the only MOT emissions test for diesels is particulates (smoke); there is no test for NOx emissions.
Andy.
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG
91 205D-Turbo, gone but still missed
02 106D, TUD5B, gone but not really missed apart from the MPG