C5 Rear suspension leak / mot fail / boffin required

[bamba]

Having a few issues with my dads 02plate c5, regarding the mot, looking back through paper work ,last years mot failed in 2014 initially with a leaking nsr leaking hydraulic ram, i had involvement with this,but it latter passed with no further work being carried out, mot done at eurocare car.
Fast forward to now, had a quick glance over before taking it for this years mot, i raised the suspension high to have a look at the nsr ram, it was a little moist, but not wet, so gave it a spray and wipe.
Upon taking to test (to my preferred staion,not really specialist in this car ) I lowered the car back down,from heigh,but ended up on low and unable to get it back to normal while driving. I left it at the mot station in low and figured they would get it back up when parked stationary.
The mot station rang me latter to say they couldnt get it on the ramp because it was stuck low, I went back to the car and it seamed the fluid was low, bit of a jiggle about with the reservoir got it back up,i went to get a litre of fluid to top it up, and left it set heigh while they mot'd it. Obviously the testers are now probably going to be keen on looking for leak.
Unsurprisingly it failed on leaking nsr hydraulic unit.
I have had a good look at said unit, took the clip of the boot, expecting a flood of oil to come out,but only a small amount came out, I have thoroughly checked the boot for holes,the clip is still the genuine item and has enough tension on it, rebuilt and have ran the car up and down and road tested for a few miles and has remained dry.
I have researched on how the system operates , and aware that the ram is allowed to leak a certain amount, and oil is kept in the bellows to be drawn back, but to any one unaware and suspects a leak, may prise the seal and put it down as a leak, as you would a brake wheel cylinder .
I have been back to the test station, and explained that the job of the bellows is to contain fluid etc, who was reluctant to agree on its operation, and begrudging to accept that had not replaced any thing to fix the claimed leak.
Is it fees-able that driving the car in low , and the jacking up and down at mot may cause some fluid to be displaced ? yes i have topped the fluid up , but ive not had anything to do with this car before , so the leak may have been over some time. Currently awaiting a retest on wednesday, thanks

[Stickyfinger]

Two things spring to mind, the height sensor/dog-bone is seized or dirty, normally the rear plays up as it get mud and road dirt more that the front....that could be the reason for the "stuck in low"

MOT tester popped the gaiter (thinking it is rubber) and does not know about the "leak back" system on Citroen's ?

[bamba]

the heigh control seams to be operating normally now, my concern is the leak the mot tester picked up on, which hasnt leaked since. yes that was my concern that the tester has prodded and poked looked for a leak. When i spoke to him this morning that the ram should leak and that the bellows contains a amount and is drawn back to the reservoir, the response was " where'v you read that then "

[wurlycorner]

I don't mean this harshly, but dropping the car off to them when you know the suspension wont raise, is asking for trouble a bit...

The MOT testers wouldn't have pulled back the gaitor - they aren't allowed to pull back any covers as part of the test these days (which is why on a modern car, the validity of an MOT is becoming so bloody useless tbh!) and I can't see they'd bother wasting their time doing it, even out of interest, unless they were expecting to get the repair job.

So basically, if it didn't look like it was leaking from the outside, then unless they're complete arseholes that are after some money (I suspect they aren't though because being a 'normal garage' then they won't want to be getting involved in a job on 'scary citroen hydraulics'? ) then they wouldn't have failed it.
If it does look like it's leaking, then it is leaking.

Can you post some pics of what the ram looks like? That would help us say one way or the other.

[bamba]

Yes i realise this now, at the time when it was stuck low when i was on the way to mot, i wasnt sure if it only adjusted when stationary or on the move or even if it mattered. cant post any pics as the car is back at my farthers now,an the car will not be in use until retest on wednesday,
would driving the car in low cause any leaks , may be if the ram seal is a bit worn , then followed by jacking up/ lowering cause any dissplaced fluid to be forced out , while the car is not running ?

[wurlycorner]

On low, there shouldn't be any fluid to speak of in the rams really, only residual.

I can't see that driving it like that would cause it to leak. It's just more likely to make it ground out/damage the bump stops/drive shafts/steering and be very uncomfortable!

[bamba]

is there some where on the internet that accurately describes the operation, particularly the leak back / scavenge system of the bellows ?

[wurlycorner]

IMO you won't convince the garage of anything - it's not worth trying the discussion. You can rarely change their mind on something that they don't understand - a) it means swallowing their pride and admitting they're wrong/that you might know more than them, b) it means they're issuing a valid MOT based on what someone else has said rather than what they have seen and interpreted themselves. Very very few garages are prepared to accept that!


If there's no sign of any leaks and their problem was that last time you went back you said you hadn't done anything, then when you take it back this time, tell them you've had the seals replaced.

If there are signs of leaks, they'll just continue to fail it, regardless. And probably rightly so.

[dnsey]

Mine mists a little fluid from the breather attached to the gaiter. Over time, a small amount of fluid accumulates in the crossmember, and drips back occasionally past the grommet. I've never needed to top-up the fluid, so it really is insignificant. Last year, I persuaded the tester not to fail it on a hydraulic leak based on this, after explaining the mechanism , but he still felt it appropriate to enter an advisory.
Before this year's test, I washed out the crossmember, extended the breather with a foot or so of PVC tubing, and sealed the grommet with silicone compound.
Straight pass!

[bamba]

Retested yesterday morning , no further leaks (not that i witnessed one ) bone dry, passed.

[SaabC5]

I had the same issue on my MK1, my friend is an MOT tester and also a VOSA approved test examiner trainer and he passed the vehicle with a slight weep explaining the rubber bellows only covers the steering rack and not the "scavenge" system employed by Citroen. It really helps having somebody with 30 years experience testing your car.