C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

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citroenxm
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C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

My sister has a 1.6 hdi 16v C4 3dr VTR 110bhp ... over the last three years all has been well.. always started, went WELL indeed, only used fully synthetic oil for services..

However, about a month maybee two ago at mums when my sister was leaving she noticed the car took a bit longer to start then useual... anyway, she went home all the same.

So over the next few days it was taking longer and longer for it to start untill a point that it was not going at all.. I managed to get the car back to her house so it was safe, took lexi with me and connected it up.

Everything was showing ok, except the fuel pressure measured in the fuel rail. 100 bar MAX and as little as 50bar.

They need at least 250 bar Plus before they will startup.. I cracked an injector union to find there WAS fuel at the injectors. So I assumed fuel rail pressure sensor.. so ordered one up.

Next thing, where the hell is the sensor located?? Ah, in the end of the fuel rail, wheres that? On the BACK of the bloody engine, under the EGR recirculate canister, which luckilly is ok to move out the way...

So, next thing, fitting the pressure sensor - theres water pipes that pass the end of the block stopping easy access to the sensor, anyway after a bit of F kin around managed to get it swapped....

Tried again, same, no fuel pressure. So.. what next? Fuel Pump...?

Found one. £55 on ebay. Took a chance. Stripped the top mount off, belt covers off to find the pump is mounted opposite to the 2.o 8v hdi engines and the belt AND pully need to come off to get at the pump mounting bolts. I also discovered that the Pump IS timed and has a timing hole on the pully.

So, swapped pump over, and in the mean time to help access removed the Cam sensor. All swapped over, and plummed back in, I spun the engine over... only to find it still wouldn't got, but a saw a magical 300 bar fuel pressure. However, Id forgot to fit the cam sensor before trying hence her not going. Re-fitted the sensor and I was back to square one. Fuel pressure wouldn't come up..

So whats going on? Cant be pump now I had 300 bar a moment ago! I tried the primer again. . nope no good. So being a bit cruel to the start I just held the key for ages... and WOW she nearly fired.. by now though the battery was getting weak.

So, armed with some fuel pipes, tomorrow Im going for another look. Im beginning to think lack of fuel flow to the pump, prehaps a pin hole letting air in but not fuel out, or even a slightly blocked fuel filter. Its a enclosed housed type filter so you can never see the element itself. I dont think its ever been changed.. so could have a blockage.

I did notice when I was useing the primer that there was a lot of feeling of air bubbles in the pipes, and thr primer didnt go hard like older XUD Engines did..

Has anyone else experianced anything simmilar on these pile of crap 1.6 s h i t e engines???

Update tomorrow......

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ragger
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by ragger »

I have had one of these for a few months with no engine problems as yet but when I took in for a short service as soon as I purchased it, I was recommended to get the fuel filter renewed. Seems like it might have been good advice.

The car I bought was a one owner car, but the one owner clearly didn't give a sh*t about it as the rear brakes were screwed needing a complete rebuild and the front could really do with new discs and pads before long. It is a very highly specced car (as a relatively lowly SX) and it goes well and is very economical but it isn't my cup of tea. In particular, I find the steering to be dangerously light, and as with all modern cars, visibility is rubbish.

The only cars made this century which we have owned that I have had any time for are our Fiat Multiplas. We are on our third and while they are far from perfect they are much better than any other multi seat vehicle I have tried.

Rob

KP
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by KP »

My C5 HDi90 suffered low fuel pressure a while ago and after i replaced the filter the issue was gone :)

They are only a fuel quid but another way to get them going is some easy start a poor mans version is petrol in a spray bottle :D Just need a squirt or two in the inlet tract and o start cranking and that can be enough to get it going.

If one squirt is enough to get a weak fuel pressured BMW M57 engine going then i should easily do a 1.6hdi :D

Once its done get it sold as well!!

RichardW
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by RichardW »

The 1.6 is sensitive to the fuel filter, Paul - ours dropped into limp when booting it one day - replaced the fuel filter and no probs since. Mind you it had never been changed (60k miles...!). Prepare for a shock though - I paid nearly £30 at the local factors!! Good idea that, making it only replaceable in a big lump :twisted:

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

Its certainly NOT fuel filter, and im certain its not the pump too..

I discovered on the Lexia today that the Injector Flow rate was - well not flowing at any rate at all!!

So I had no choice but to remove them...

This is what I was faced with:

Image

Image

Image

Image

............... :shock:

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Hell Razor5543
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by Hell Razor5543 »

They look... interesting! I wonder what caused that. I also wonder if it is possible to clean that stuff off.

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

VERY easy James, its only rust from water ingress in the injector orface, and a bit of soot, it will all scrape off the injector body no problem!

RichardW
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by RichardW »

That looks horrible!! At least they came out I suppose...

I think the injectors might be a red herring though - the ECU will not start injection until rail pressure reaches pre-determined value (used to 120 bar IIRC) - so if you are not getting pressure then you will not get any flow. It might be worth PMing Lighty as he has more experience with these engines than the rest of us put together....

Did you try disconnecting the cam sensor again to see if you got rail pressure? That is an odd link, but may provide a clue to the origins of the problem?

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

Out of interest i stuck the lexia on dads c2 1.4 hdi as its related and watched the parameters on that... on turning the engine over the injector flow moved immidieatly and and engine fired up on 60 bar rail pressure!!

On the c4 theres NO injector activity at all and 118 to 120 bar of pressure in the rail...

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

Well, got an Injector Test Results back today..

And they ARE as bad as they look and are refusing to work at all, and rejecting all fuel..

The result? Scrap!

So, the choice we had, a set of Re-Cons for £70 EACH an injector! Looking at prices, a bargain actually.

So the Lexia was correct when it showed ZERO injector flow!

So, awaiting some replacments and get them install..

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CitroJim
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by CitroJim »

All this 'fun' with moderns just makes me want to hold on to the Xantias and XMs as long as possible...

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

CitroJim wrote:All this 'fun' with moderns just makes me want to hold on to the Xantias and XMs as long as possible...

Makes me just want to avoid anything with ford involvement jim...

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

After another stint, today, I rechecked the injectors, seals and seats etc... all ok. Still no compression!

So, only one thing for it! Drag it into life! so, ignition on, 2nd gear, let the clutch out.. puff puff cough cough... Vrrrroooommm off she went!!

Back to its resting place and has now started EVERY Time now.. YAAAY!!!

Now need to sort altinator, it wont rotate forwards now! Possibly something to do with me belting it to try and get it back into place to get the bolts in.....

KP
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by KP »

Will the alternator from that HDi90 do the job Paul?

citroenxm
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Re: C4 HDi HEADACHES (A short BLOG)

Post by citroenxm »

Probably... but the "battery Warning" light connector is different! These C cars use a Plug, where the older ones use a ring terminal..

Seen one on ebay for 30 quid. They dont seem expensive for some reason...