Berlingo creaking

[Northern_Mike]

Hi All,

well, I posted a while ago about the Berlingo making a "thunk" noise from the front left, or what I thought was the front left.

This noise has stopped, to be replaced by a creak/groan, which sounds much like a worn out bed seeing some action.. It does it if I grab the arch and bounce it, it does it, and it does it when driving along a rough surface (it sounds like it's falling apart!). It's not the undertray catching as the undertray is in my shed.

It drives spot on. The steering is fine. It grips fine. The top mount nut is torqued correctly. The ECU isn't catching on the strut top.

I took it up to a recommended Indy yesterday for them to have a look at and diagnose. Up in the air on the lift, with plenty of levering and pushing/pulling, it appears all is well. Ball joint is ok, bushes on the lower arm are ok. The top mount appears ok. Everything is tight.

Very, very strange. It's going in this week much to my disappointment for presumably expensive diagnosis. I'm not hugely overjoyed about this.

Could it simply be the strut that's moaning? I could upload a video, but I've neither top or bottom engine cover on, and it's a bit noisy at the moment..

I'm expecting it to either be the strut and top mount need replacing, or the lower arm, bushes and balljoint.

Prace bets now.

[citroenxm]

Ahh Now then Mike. My Mates neighbour over the road has a Nissan/Reno Note 1.5 DCi.

He had a spring fitted to it, and after this the car had IIRC what you are describing now. He took it into an Indy, who stripped the leg back off, greased and lubed all the bits on it, reassembled it and it seemed to be ok.

Sounds to me a possible Shock/Spring problem which is affected with the weight in it only..

[Northern_Mike]

Ahh Now then Mike. My Mates neighbour over the road has a Nissan/Reno Note 1.5 DCi.

He had a spring fitted to it, and after this the car had IIRC what you are describing now. He took it into an Indy, who stripped the leg back off, greased and lubed all the bits on it, reassembled it and it seemed to be ok.

It's very odd. DickieG helped me replace the spring and top mount about a year ago, it's been spot on since then until the last couple of weeks, when it clunked at first, and now creaks. It doesn't even seem to be weight related any more - at first it was when turning right with a passenger in, now it does it all the time, more under braking as the nose dives. I'm tempted to go and spray spray grease on it all right now and go for a drive and see if it shuts up, but I imagine my mechanic won't particularly enjoy working on it should I do that..

I just *know* that if one leg has failed, they're going to insist I have both replaced, even though I believe that to be cack. Maybe less so with dampers, but it's certainly cack to say springs need replacing in pairs. A spring is either springing or it's not..

[citroenxm]

Are you certain a spring hasn't sheared right at the top or bottom, only needs a quarter of the top broken away to be wrong..

hate Coil Spring suspension for these reasons!

[Northern_Mike]

Are you certain a spring hasn't sheared right at the top or bottom, only needs a quarter of the top broken away to be wrong..

hate Coil Spring suspension for these reasons!

As sure as I can be from looking up there with a torch when it was on the lift yesterday and wiggling stuff around. The spring, I would hope, is ok, as it'll be not much more than a year old, and is a Lemforder item which was fitted properly with a new top mount. We also replaced the drop link at the same time.

[Northern_Mike]

This is a real "Oh &%*$!" one.

Had the car up at the garage today, stripped the left side down completely. Strut out, top mount out, hub checked. There's nothing wrong with it. It was all lubed as it should be, put back together, was silent for 5 mins on the road test, then started it's noise again.

It's either the top mount or the strut. Now, I don't have the tools to DIY this one, so it's a case of replacing both when possibly only one needs replacing. Annoying, and expensive.

Do I replace both? Do I replace neither? Do I replace only the top mount and save the £60 that the strut costs? This could work.. or it could be false economy if it's the strut at fault.. or vice versa, as the whole lot has to come to pieces to replace either. Massive annoyance. I'm tempted to replace neither and wait until it gets worse until it's obvious which part it is.

Arrgh.

As an aside, I've been pottering about in a 2 litre Petrol S2 Xantia today, I'd forgotten how nice they are to drive!

[addo]

Are you sure it's not the lower ball joint getting sticky?

It's important that the chassis is not twisted during final tightening of the suspension as this could "build in" stresses that lead to unexpected side loads on bearings and thus odd noises. To achieve this I recommend the use of bonded strain gauges applied midlength to the vertical lower flange of each sill. With the car on level ground, one rear wheel chocked and handbrake off, bounce and roll the car slightly to remove any residual stresses. Now attach the strain gauges and once adhesive has cured, adjust your output voltage readings on the oscilloscope to parity. Make sure equal gauge output is maintained as the vehicle is lifted or placed on stands - in the latter case, noting that both wheels must be chocked. Adjust the hoist pads or stands to maintain parity.

To further eliminate possible creaks, check each subframe bolt by backing off, then pulling up to torque in one sweep each. This comment also takes in the rack mounts, although these are less frequently a problem for PSA vehicles.

[Northern_Mike]

Very droll.

Ball joint seems ok. It all turns smoothly with the track rods disconnected.

It all seems ok. My *gut feeling* (I know this is frowned upon here) is that the aftermarket top-mount we fitted last year is dying. I think I'll just leave it for a month or so until it gets worse.

I will hire some bonded strain gauges next week to measure the stress that has built itself in over the last 20,000 miles since this strut assembly was last in pieces. What sort of adhesive do I need to use? I have a glue gun..

[addo]

Hot melt glue will be fine for this application. Or - if you have one of those realky "claggy" nasal colds, just hoick an oyster onto the sill and stick your strain gauge with that.

But - check your subframe and P bush securing bolts first.