A 2.1 VSX (as a replacement) Xantia - initial problems.

[Old-Guy]

I bought the 1998 2.1 VSX estate I went to look at yesterday. Dark blue, all original equipment, no MoT (nuisance because I can't use it immediately), black leather, no sun-roof (shame); FSH and a thick wad of all the bills for the last 8 years or so. A lot more miles (191k) than I had understood, and a bit scruffy externally (London life) but it's had loads of money spent on it in recent years - if it is a lemon (and I don't think it is), I could get my money back in spares.
The strut tops look sound (I now know what to look for), but they will be taken off before long and given a thorough inspection, paint and refitted according to proper practise.
There's a nasty front suspension rattle that has to be fixed for a new MoT to me sounds like a track-rod end (I hope) or a bottom ball joint
The air-con is stuck on (separate post) but did at least blow cold all the way home down the M4 - crusing gently at or just below the limit. The loud blast from the A/C made it impossible to hear any other noises that she might have been making. SWMBO says it's a He (blue) not a She, and we aren't going to get attached to this one - yea right!
Been standing since the end of January when the tax ran out - the front height corrector is a bit sticky.
Crawling through South London, the temperature started to worry me, creeping up to an indicated 90, but after I stopped, re-checking the coolant level and waited 10 minutes for the back-up car to catch up, it went back down to 80 and then behaved normally varying between 75 and 80 despite heavy traffic on a warm day - wierd! Stuck but working thermostat or otter-switch?
Going to go and do a Citearobics session. Then, it being Sunday, I can get her on a lift and have a thorough look underneath and lubricate the sticky front height corrector and have a look for the rattle.
Are bottom ball joints always difficult to replace?
Bottom rubber bushes ditto?

[Old-Guy]

Can't get it on the lift (occupied), but some new problems have surfaced:
The reason the engine temperature was rising at the start of the trip home was because the fans didn't kick in, after a while they did but are now on whenever the ignition is on (just like the blower!).
The car started first pop this morning (nice shiny new glowplugs ), but the battery went dead flat (showing 2.8V ) in less than an hour at lunchtime. Not due to the blower and cooling fans being on permanently because after I started it with a jump pack, the alternator was putting some charge back while I did a Citearobics session (the front height controller is sticking).
At the moment the 2.1 engine is a bit of a mystery:

• Can't find a throttle cable, is it fly-by-wire?
  Can't see the thermostat (said to be round the back of the head), the filter-base/thermostat-housing looks just like the 1.9.
  The engine has transparent PVC fuel pipes to/from the filter and air can be seen bubbling through. The primer-bulb isn't like the 1.9's and the pipe beyond it that joins to a clear PVC one is obviously a replacement, though the pipe to it looks standard; should it have the usual Citroen primer-bulb?
  Does the 2.1 have the same injector leak-off arrangement (and weakness) hidden under the longer plastic inlet ducts?

Not knowing the state of the oil or coolant and with our recent French 'experience', I drove it home gently, but the one time I wanted to accelerate smartly (from about 2,400 in 4th) it quickly started to run out of steam around 3,000. Fuel starvation I thought - the air bubbles spotted today seem to confirm there's a problem.

[taffy]

i had a simular problem when i first got my 2.1...it was the primmer bulb for me but if its got clear tubbing on it i suspect it been an intermitant problem....sounds like she needs a good lubbing session so u know wheather its something deeper...its fly by i think its on the accelerater...not sure on thermo but think its same as 1.9?

ul have to post some pics of her

[citroenxm]

Can't get it on the lift (occupied), but some new problems have surfaced:
The reason the engine temperature was rising at the start of the trip home was because the fans didn't kick in, after a while they did but are now on whenever the ignition is on (just like the blower!).
The car started first pop this morning (nice shiny new glowplugs ), but the battery went dead flat (showing 2.8V ) in less than an hour at lunchtime. Not due to the blower and cooling fans being on permanently because after I started it with a jump pack, the alternator was putting some charge back while I did a Citearobics session (the front height controller is sticking).
At the moment the 2.1 engine is a bit of a mystery:

• Can't find a throttle cable, is it fly-by-wire?
  Can't see the thermostat (said to be round the back of the head), the filter-base/thermostat-housing looks just like the 1.9.
  The engine has transparent PVC fuel pipes to/from the filter and air can be seen bubbling through. The primer-bulb isn't like the 1.9's and the pipe beyond it that joins to a clear PVC one is obviously a replacement, though the pipe to it looks standard; should it have the usual Citroen primer-bulb?
  Does the 2.1 have the same injector leak-off arrangement (and weakness) hidden under the longer plastic inlet ducts?

Not knowing the state of the oil or coolant and with our recent French 'experience', I drove it home gently, but the one time I wanted to accelerate smartly (from about 2,400 in 4th) it quickly started to run out of steam around 3,000. Fuel starvation I thought - the air bubbles spotted today seem to confirm there's a problem.

Hi Guy,

Thermo stat is on the back of the LOWER BLOCK, not the head, just above the drive shaft half shaft bearing house. Where the bottom hose goes to the back of the block from the Rad.

Yes! Its drive by Wire, Like the HDi, there will be a throttle potentiometer some where, not sure where it is on the 2.1, possibly over by the LHM Tank/Battery tray area..

Yes, the 2.1 has leak off's like the 1.9, and Yes hidden under the larger inlet manifold. They split at the rear, theres 4x securing bolts holding it onto the head.

CitroJim is a Residant 2.1 EXPERT on the fuel system, but she shouldn't run out of steam at 3k, so deafenatly a fuel starvation..

[citronut]

do let Jim hear you mention the A 21 he loves it with a passion

[Old-Guy]

Paul thanks for the vital info. The thermostat sounds like a total 'mare to get at.

Malcolm, Jim's enthusiasm for the XUD11 2.1 is what persuaded me to drive 130 miles just to look at this one (and then buy it). If I've bitten off more than I can chew, I know who to blame.....

However, I sussed the cooling fan problem yesterday - the temperature sender probably has a duff connection. The fans came on because I was fiddling with the air-con controls (never owned a car with A/C before) and had forgotten what I'd read here that the cooling fans run at slow speed if A/C is on. To complicate the issue, most of the bulbs in the switches seem to have blown (so I can't see when the A/C is on), so now I need to work out how to remove the (fake wood) panel without damaging it.

The electrovalves seem to work as they should, but carry on whining and clicking when the car is parked (flat battery problem?), would this be the diode problem or dirty connections somewhere? The suspension mode switch has a dead bulb or may be disconnected - the least of my problems.

First priority is to get it MoT'ed so we have transport - hopefully it's just a matter of a suspension/steering joint/bush and swapping the good spare tyre onto an alloy (the N/S front has been driven over some broken glass, tread's OK but the shoulder's got a load of small cuts down to the cords in places).

I'm afraid I'm going to be asking lots more questions about the VSX's suspension, A/C, and the 2.1.

[citroenxm]

Any pics guy? series one or two as the "wood" panel comes away in very different ways between the two models

why not post a pic up so we know.. but Im guessing series one.. Im sure vsx was dropped in favour of exclusive on s2 cars..

if you can pop the clock out on its own its s1 but if its hidden behind the panel its s2

[Mandrake]

The electrovalves seem to work as they should, but carry on whining and clicking when the car is parked (flat battery problem?), would this be the diode problem or dirty connections somewhere? The suspension mode switch has a dead bulb or may be disconnected - the least of my problems.

How long do they keep whining after the car is parked ? They should only stay on for 30 seconds with the doors closed and engine off. If they stay on for much longer the problem will be with one of the door light switches - the Hydractive computer monitors the same door switches that operate the interior lights, as well as the tailgate light switch. Do your interior lights stay on as well, instead of fading out after 10 seconds ?

There is a failsafe to prevent the battery running down though - even if you left a door open (or the computer thinks the door was left open due to a faulty switch) the electrovalves will still turn off after 10 minutes.

I'm afraid I'm going to be asking lots more questions about the VSX's suspension, A/C, and the 2.1.

Keep 'em coming

[Mandrake]

Any pics guy? series one or two as the "wood" panel comes away in very different ways between the two models

why not post a pic up so we know.. but Im guessing series one.. Im sure vsx was dropped in favour of exclusive on s2 cars..

if you can pop the clock out on its own its s1 but if its hidden behind the panel its s2

Correct, VSX is Series 1 only. Equivalent in Series 2 is Exclusive.

[citroenxm]

Ah well there was a cross over with exclisive into s1 cars with the v6 but wasnt sure if vsx crossed into early s2 territory..

Well in an s1 the steering wheel needs to come off to get the colum cowling off to get at two of the wood securing trim.. there theres three more to take out.. the small plastic section to the right of the steering colum needs to come away to get at the far right wood trim screw..lower the fuse cover and remove the top two screws each end at the catch end and the third screw thats on the left of the plastic trim.. remove the trim and the third screw for the wood trim is on the right...

Draw the panel towards you. Unplug the switch..

[Old-Guy]

OK for the record it's an S1 2.1 VSX Estate in Mauritius Blue with leather seats and air con, first registered 30/1/1998. RP No 7634. All the paperwork says it's an Athena but the tailgate has a VSX badge (not Athena). 191,000 on the clock - not high for its age.

Haven't yet found any evidence for exact build date so I don't know if it's a 1997 MY run-out or an early 1998 MY (were there any significant changes.

I noticed from some pictures of a 2.1 that someone else has posted, that what I took to be non-standard clear (but yellowing) fuel pipes to and from the fuel filter are in fact the original articles, but the primer bulb and the length of pipe that joins to the first clear section are definitely non-standard.

Pollen filter totally choked - I mean TOTALLY.

Once it's road-legal (first priority) and had an oil and filter change, I'll start on the snagging list:

• Check the fuel tank filter
  Ditto LHM reservoir and state of LHM
  Fix air leak in fuel system if not tank filter
  Bleed brakes (awfully heavy)
  Sort blower problem

Not too bad, lots of plus points

• 2 new (cheap) tyres
  new glowplugs
  Genuine Citroen spheres "3 years ago" (I'll check through the pile of bills)
  New FIAMM battery

Lots of other new bits in the fairly recent past.

[citronut]

Malcolm, Jim's enthusiasm for the XUD11 2.1 is what persuaded me to drive 130 miles just to look at this one (and then buy it). If I've bitten off more than I can chew, I know who to blame.....

i ment the A21 road

[Mandrake]

Low down on the priority list perhaps but as its a series 1 you'll want to do the blower fan relay modification so that the ignition switch isn't having to power the fan directly, or the fan will let you down sooner or later in the doesn't go at all direction instead of the wont stop direction ...if its done early enough it will spare the ignition switch contacts, so best to do it preventatively, albeit after the more urgent stuff!

[RichardW]

Haven't yet found any evidence for exact build date

But

RP No 7634

Built on 03/10/97 - so it's a 97 run out - given the reg ending KV it will be one of the ones Citroen registered to get rid of them - I had R140 OKV, also officially Athena but badged VSX.

[Hell Razor5543]

Something that might be relevant is that on an S2 the a/c is switched on if the heater controls are set to demist the windscreen. The light in the a/c button does NOT come on. I do NOT know if this is the case on an S1.