XUD Cambelt Change (timing hole alignment)

[Xsarahdi]

Hi, I'd like to ask for a bit of advice:

Started to change the cambelt on my 1.9D ZX yesterday. Things were going alright, removed the cambelt covers (bolt on the back of the top cover wasn't the worst bit, some seemingly pointless bracket that fouled the removal of the cover was!), loosened the crank pulley bolt after having to use the starter motor trick as conventional methods were not working, removed the aux belt but then it came to the locking of the engine.

I managed to locate the hole behind the starter after a while of trying (not wanting to remove the starter ) and locked it (using a metal tent peg which seemed to do the job). Then I put an M8 bolt into the Cam hole which threaded in alright. However the holes on the injection pump don't quite line up with the holes on the engine side I could clearly see one of the bolts was at an angle so just cross threaded. One of the bolts would go in a few turns but then stop as it fouled the side of the hole in the pulley (or cross threaded, can't quite tell). So I don't know what to do. I did wonder if the peg used for the flywheel was thick enough perhaps meaning the engine could be rotated a slightest bit more, but the cam bolt went in okay. Not sure if it means it has been a tooth out all this time, or maybe if it were a tooth out the pump holes would be even more out of alignment. Is it possible for the belt to have stretched?

The car has been running okay. Would it be that noticeable if the pump has been out of timing for years? As the car has been alright, do I put the bolts in a couple of turns and fit the new belt leaving it in the same position, or do I align the holes properly after removing the old belt? It's one of those things where I want it to be as it should, however don't want to cause issues when the car has been working.

Sorry for the many questions!
Thanks

[Peter.N.]

Assuming the pulleys are correctly fitted to the camshaft and pump, its unlikely that they are not, the correct timing will be with the screws located in the holes behind them. If the hole is only a little way out, less than on tooth, its probably just that the belt has stretched slightly. The locator you have in the flywheel sounds fine, I use a length of wire coat hanger which is quite thin really but it doesn't allow enough movement to put the timing out.

I would move the pulleys to fit the bolts correctly, you may well find that when you remove the bolts and tension the belt that it will move again, don't worry about it, its near enough. Once you have fitted and tensioned the belt, turn the engine over several times with the crank pulley nut to make sure its free and it should be OK.

Peter

[citronut]

i would make sure the cam and crank pegs go in correctly, the drop the belt off and line the pump up fully so the bolts/pegs thread properly, rather that cross threaded,

i use a length of 3/16th kunifer/brake pipe as the fly wheel peg, then if you forget to remove it before cranking the engine you can still yank it out after its bent over ( how do i know )

also the visual check to get the crank within a gnats whisker is, look just above the crank sprocket there is a raised square block in the casting/casing, line the back edge of the crank woodruf key up with the forward edg of the square block,

then you might just need to rock the crank slightly to engage the locking pin into the fly wheel,

you might be surprised at the increase in get up and go once she's back together

[Xsarahdi]

Thanks for the replies! Done a bit more to it this evening but not finished yet.

Peter: I'm guessing the pulleys are fitted correctly as they have never been removed. Yes the holes were only a little bit out causing them to cross thread, so it is probably less than a tooth out. I'm thinking now that perhaps the belt hasn't stretched as the pulley was out in the opposite direction to what stretching would cause Also the old belt when lined up against the new is very slightly smaller. I did try something thicker in the flywheel but it made no difference to the alignment so you were right that the pin I used the first time was fine. I have moved the pump pulley slightly now to allow the bolts to go in correctly. If it does go back to how it was after, it's good to know that I don't need to worry!

Citronut: Yes the cam and crank pegs went in fine, so did as advised and lined the pump up fully. I imagine the length of brake pipe makes life easier and at least you shouldn't make the same mistake again Thanks for that tip, useful to know. Really, you think that the engine will go a bit better afterwards? Is this down to the fact the pump was slightly out?

[Northern_Mike]

I had the belt and tensioners done on my HDi Berlingo yesterday. The mechanic who did the work said it'd likely feel a bit more lively with a new belt on as old ones tend to stretch slightly over time - it won't go a whole tooth out, but it'll be a little out. I have no reason to disbelieve it, I haven't measured the old belt either, but it does feel better.

[citronut]

Really, you think that the engine will go a bit better afterwards? Is this down to the fact the pump was slightly out?

more often than not customers find there engine more responsive after a cam belt replacement, so yes i think you could find it goes better,


if you find it has less get up and go once back together, you will need to adjust the pump timing, which involves rotating the pump body one way or the other slightly

[Xsarahdi]

I see, that make sense about expecting it to run better with a new belt

Now doing the water pump, however the old gasket is not wanting to come ff at all and is really stuck on so I can't see me being able to get it off very easily Would it be okay to sand down the surface of it and put the new gasket over the top?

[Hell Razor5543]

I wouldn't! The gasket acts as a seal between 2 metal surfaces. Having 2 gaskets will also change the gaps, and introduce potential weak spots. I wonder if Plus Gas would help get the old one off?

[citronut]

if it is stuck solid all the way round, i would clean it with petrol or spirit then smear some silly con rubber over it bung the ne pump on that, leave the new gasket off

[Xsarahdi]

It is really stuck solid ALL the way round. I've tried to get it off but no success. I think I will have to use the clean it idea. Thanks

[Xsarahdi]

I kept at it in the end and got most of it off anyway. I used a screwdriver & also sandpaper to try and tackle it! I did use a bit of sealant around to help prevent leaks.

The new aux belt didn't fit so had to use the old Also I forgot to put the bottom cambelt cover on until I had the crank pulley fully done up and thread locked & aux belt on and tensioned I really didn't want to have to take it all off so cut bits off the cover and put the pieces on that I could fit around, I know it would probably be better leaving it off completely just in case the bits aren't lined up but then I was worried about it being exposed

It is all back together now though & runs! Coolant took a while to bleed but think its good now. Only issue is, I can hear a noise that wasn't there before. It happens when the engine is slowing down again after being revved. Can't really describe the noise but I'm worried it may be one of the covers catching

[citronut]

i would get a replacement lower cover dismantle and fit it properly,

as it is you risk bits getting in under the cam belt, and without it at all you risk something getting in there off the road,

how did the engine sound/feel, does it rev up, start and shut down smoothly

[Xsarahdi]

I know I should, it's just the thought of getting the crank pulley off again

True, it is risky, the wheel arch liner will help stop the wheel brining anything up for now though shouldn't it?

It starts fine, feels fine with revving up but down there is a strange noise but other than that, it's normal (there may be a slight background noise all the time but not sure)

[Xsarahdi]

Another thing regarding the aux belt, the one I got is a genuine Citroen one (made by gates) and has the part number 5750TK which I believed was the correct part for the car. However even with the tensioner fully backed off it wouldn't go on. So I have no idea what belt to go for Perhaps I should go to ECP and take the old belt with me to compare to ensure I get the correct one this time.

[Xsarahdi]

Should a new aux belt be that tight whereby it would require a great deal of levering to get it on?