'59 C5 - a couple of questions

[sergiup]

Hello all! I've recently changed my trusty 51-reg Passat (good car, but at almost 12 years old and 160k miles it was starting to get expensive to maintain) for a 59-reg C5 2.0HDi VTR+ Nav; a bit of a strange move from a German car owner, but I've driven a same-age C5 (Exclusive) quite a bit and I loved it. That may sound odd since I'm still under 30 and most people would imagine that I'd prefer something much sportier, but I've never been one for thrills at the expense of comfort, and on top of it all it was a bit too much of a bargain compared to a 5-series or A6 or something similar. I would've gone for the Exclusive but I felt that given the very low usage that the car would get, the Hydractive suspension would add too many potential headaches / more expensive maintenance and so on compared to the little bit of extra comfort that it brings; maybe I was wrong but I can say that even the standard suspension version still makes for a very comfy car.

Anyway, I have a couple of questions about the car. It's not related to maintenance since I had it serviced straight away, brake pads and discs are only barely worn, everything runs fine etc.

First question is about the stereo (it's an RNEG nav unit as usual with these), although I'm not in any way a car audio "nut", I think the tourer comes with a subwoofer in the boot (on the right?), but there seems to be no such thing on the saloon. Does anyone know if there are at least pre-installed connectors somewhere for this? If not, does the RNEG unit have any suitable outputs somewhere - I'm guessing on the back of the unit? I'm not looking to install some monster of a sub, but a little extra would be nice.

Second question is about retro-fitting DRL's, is this possible without a lot of work? I can see a few kits on *that* auction site and other places, I have no idea how easy they'd be to install though, if the wiring is already in place and it's just a matter of fitting them into the headlights and so on. I would also imagine that it would require a Lexia session to add the functionality (there's no mention of DRL's in the car menus), which leads me to..

I've gotten the impression that the Lexia kits sold by easydiagnostics are the ones to get? I haven't decided whether to get one yet or not just because I probably wouldn't get much use out of it to justify it, but it's possible I may "go crazy" anyway. The other thing is I would find it impossible not to tinker, which could be dangerous...

Lastly, one or two of the trim "poppers" in the boot seem to be missing, is this something which can just be ordered at a dealer?

Thank you!

[sergiup]

I'm going to appease the request for photos in advance - I've yet to see another one in this colour anywhere near me.

[bobins]

Hi Sergiup, the DRL will already be fitted - they just need enabling via Diagbox if you've not already got the option to turn them on with the dashboard computer. You can pay a garage to turn them on.... or use that as justification to buy your own Diagbox from EasyDiagnostics
If you feel the need to fiddle with the car, then there's the RNEG firmware to be upgraded for a start

[sergiup]

Hi Sergiup, the DRL will already be fitted - they just need enabling via Diagbox if you've not already got the option to turn them on with the dashboard computer. You can pay a garage to turn them on.... or use that as justification to buy your own Diagbox from EasyDiagnostics
If you feel the need to fiddle with the car, then there's the RNEG firmware to be upgraded for a start

Ah wow, okay. I can see something in there where the new-gen LED DRLs are, I had no idea it was actually already installed though. It may just be enough of a reason to buy a Diagbox...
As for fiddling, don't worry, the RNEG firmware and everything else is already fully up to date - it took me more than a day just because I needed a bigger SD card

[myglaren]

Welcome Sergiu
If you just want to enable a few odds and ends and run a check, rather than invest in a Lexia/Diagbox right away, there is a list of members who will use their diagnostic interface on your car for a small consideration - very small in some cases.

Look at the list and map and contact the member closest to you

[sergiup]

Thank you Steve! There isn't one that close, but it might be worth a try/day trip.

[DickieG]

First question is about the stereo (it's an RNEG nav unit as usual with these), although I'm not in any way a car audio "nut", I think the tourer comes with a subwoofer in the boot (on the right?), but there seems to be no such thing on the saloon. Does anyone know if there are at least pre-installed connectors somewhere for this? If not, does the RNEG unit have any suitable outputs somewhere - I'm guessing on the back of the unit? I'm not looking to install some monster of a sub, but a little extra would be nice.

The subwoofer comes as part of the optional upgraded stereo system in both saloons and estates (in the area you mention), if it was fitted the front speakers have silver trim at the top and the rear doors have additional tweeters near the top of the door cards, I don't think the additional loom for the subwoofer is fitted as a matter of course as the connectors are different. To improve the sound you could replace the front speakers and tweeters with a dedicated set that Pioneer offer for just under £100 - TS-Q171C.

Lastly, one or two of the trim "poppers" in the boot seem to be missing, is this something which can just be ordered at a dealer?

Yes

[sergiup]

First question is about the stereo (it's an RNEG nav unit as usual with these), although I'm not in any way a car audio "nut", I think the tourer comes with a subwoofer in the boot (on the right?), but there seems to be no such thing on the saloon. Does anyone know if there are at least pre-installed connectors somewhere for this? If not, does the RNEG unit have any suitable outputs somewhere - I'm guessing on the back of the unit? I'm not looking to install some monster of a sub, but a little extra would be nice.

The subwoofer comes as part of the optional upgraded stereo system in both saloons and estates (in the area you mention), if it was fitted the front speakers have silver trim at the top and the rear doors have additional tweeters near the top of the door cards, I don't think the additional loom for the subwoofer is fitted as a matter of course as the connectors are different. To improve the sound you could replace the front speakers and tweeters with a dedicated set that Pioneer offer for just under £100 - TS-Q171C.

Lastly, one or two of the trim "poppers" in the boot seem to be missing, is this something which can just be ordered at a dealer?

Yes

Right, understood - I had a feeling that might be the case but I couldn't quite figure it out from the manual. As you suspect the speakers are the standard ones not the silver-trim upgraded version, so I might consider the speaker upgrade at some stage. Is sounds like it's relatively easy to pull out the existing speakers & tweeters and replace them - woofers in the front doors at the bottom, and tweeters behind the two plastic grilles on the dash. Thank you!

[dfisher108]

In Feb 2013 I bought an August 2009 C5 Tourer from a Citroen main dealer. On the vehicle lighting parameters on the dashboard menu, the daytime running lights DRL option was not present (only cornering lights and guide me home lighting) I took it back to the dealer where it was connected to their computer system runing numerous checks. The technician said the output had not shown the DRL option specifically to be available. So I took the car back and when I arrived home I thought I would check the dashboard options and amazingly the DRL option showed up. Once it was clicked on the DRLs worked. These DRLs were single halogen lamps under the main headlamps.

[Trainman]

Another thing to bear in mind with the DRL's is that ONLY the front lights illuminate, unlike a Volvo whereby you get side marker and rear lights as well.

[sergiup]

So, 2800 miles later (yes, only that much in almost 6 months) out of which over 1500 were driving to France/Belgium and back, the clutch has started slipping... I'm obviously not a "happy bunny" (or should I say "je ne suis pas un lapin heureux" ), while I realise that clutches are consumables to a degree and that a "Citroen-Approved" warranty doesn't actually cover them, I find it unreasonable that it should start failing after relatively so little use: picked up at 49,077 miles, failing at 51,906.

I've emailed my dealer to see what they come back with, and I'm also getting a quote from Mr Clutch for comparison. I'll be looking to replace the DMF as well since I've always been told it's a good idea to do both at once, most likely with a solid flywheel.

A couple of questions for you wonderful folk here:
- am I being unreasonable about complaining to the dealer?
- are there any reasons I shouldn't be looking at a solid flywheel? I consider myself to be pretty light on the clutch and I try to "preserve" is as much as I can, if that makes a difference.
- does anyone have any recommendations for good-value garages that would do this in South-East London/Kent/Essex?

Thank you, again!

[Hell Razor5543]

I would STRONGLY suggest you do NOT use Mr Clutch! I did, on my previous Xantia, and within a month I lost all my trust in the car, to the point I got rid. Before that, there were no major problems. The problem was proving it was down to them.

[sergiup]

I would STRONGLY suggest you do NOT use Mr Clutch! I did, on my previous Xantia, and within a month I lost all my trust in the car, to the point I got rid. Before that, there were no major problems. The problem was proving it was down to them.

Advice gladly taken - I'm just using them for a quote, I hope the dealer comes back with something equal or less in the first place.

[RichardW]

I hope you're sitting down.... parts prices from Citroen:

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00002052P3 CLUTCH KIT 225.16 GBP 270.19 GBP
00002041A9 TOPE DE EMBRAGUE MOTOR 39.52 GBP 47.42 GBP
00000532X7 DUAL FLYWHEEL 309.59 GBP 371.51 GBP

ie £689.12

It appears to be the same unit fitted to Mk2 cars - which can be had aftermarket for around £400 for all 4 parts. No solid flywheel conversion available. This is a known issue with this clutch, and is often ascribed to an oil leak - however, I'm sceptical - it's a self adjusting clutch, and I suspect this is where the fault lies - people with problematic clutches often find the symptoms come and go. I've changed one on a MK2 and it's not a lot of fun!! No idea what the access is like on a MK3, but some one said getting the shafts out was a 'mare.

Given that you've done so few miles I would definitley try it on at the dealer - what ever the warranty says, sale of goods act says it was present at time of sale if it occurs within 6 months - if you'd done 20k then dealer would have a reason for saying no, but at <3k not really. Expect to get rebuffed the first time, but read up on SOGA and try again!

[sergiup]

I hope you're sitting down.... parts prices from Citroen:

Part Number Description Quantity Price excl. VAT Price incl. VAT Total incl. VAT Selection
00002052P3 CLUTCH KIT 225.16 GBP 270.19 GBP
00002041A9 TOPE DE EMBRAGUE MOTOR 39.52 GBP 47.42 GBP
00000532X7 DUAL FLYWHEEL 309.59 GBP 371.51 GBP

ie £689.12

It appears to be the same unit fitted to Mk2 cars - which can be had aftermarket for around £400 for all 4 parts. No solid flywheel conversion available. This is a known issue with this clutch, and is often ascribed to an oil leak - however, I'm sceptical - it's a self adjusting clutch, and I suspect this is where the fault lies - people with problematic clutches often find the symptoms come and go. I've changed one on a MK2 and it's not a lot of fun!! No idea what the access is like on a MK3, but some one said getting the shafts out was a 'mare.

Given that you've done so few miles I would definitley try it on at the dealer - what ever the warranty says, sale of goods act says it was present at time of sale if it occurs within 6 months - if you'd done 20k then dealer would have a reason for saying no, but at <3k not really. Expect to get rebuffed the first time, but read up on SOGA and try again!

Thanks Richard - I was expecting those prices, to be honest if it would've all come to less than £500 all-in (parts, labour and VAT for clutch and DMF) then I might've considered letting it go, however it's £699 just for the clutch all-in according to their fixed price repairs so it's a bit more of an issue. I don't think these replacements are easy on almost any modern vehicle, but all that should mean is that you'd expect them to last a fair amount of time under average use. My last car (B5.5 Passat TDI) was a whole-front-off operation to change the timing belt for example, maybe the French learnt from the Germans...?

I've found the oil contamination version on a couple of sites as well, the problem is there's no conclusive way of figuring out whether it's that without inspecting it, right? I'll try to have a drive tonight and see if it stalls as it should in 1st and 3rd, see if the bite point is right and whether it judders in first/reverse - if all of those come out negative, I'm guessing the oil leak is a little more likely?

I've been quite lucky and never had to resort to using the SOGA to get something resolved before, although my consumer-rights hat does get used every now and then so it's not unfamiliar territory. I'll see how it goes and keep you updated.