Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

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6speedmanual
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Joined: 02 Jul 2012, 23:07

Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by 6speedmanual »

Hi All

Here is my vision for a project which may prove to be interesting.
It is only a formative idea at present but if it makes sense as I move along, it could become a reality.
I'm putting my thoughts up here so you can share in the joy (ro lunacy) of the game.
I look forward to any ideas or comments you may want to throw into the melting pot....

Broad outline :

Xantia Estate S2
Exclusive model so suspension is Hydractive 2
Metallic Blue, Black leather interior

Engine:
Substantial power hike. Possibly going to 2.2 capacity and/or 16v. Remap. target 170 - 180 bhp

Transmission
ML5T with longer final drive

Wheels
Light weight alloy "steelies" ex C5 series 1
or
Peugeot 406 16" with 205/55x16. (Steelies)

Suspension
Transplant Activa suspension components...!

First stage is to get an Activa, make it work and familiarise myself with it. Decide on feasibility of suspension transplant.
Once sure it is a goer, I will need to get an HDi Exclusive as the eventual vehicle.
These two cars will have to live side by side as parts move across.
Possible acquisition of v cheap C5 2.2 for engine and gear box.

What started as a bangernomics purchase of a Xantia has rekindled my interest in Xantias (I had one before about 6 years ago)

It's long road but the end result car could be quite special.

:mrgreen:
Captain Slow
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by Captain Slow »

You can have my Activa
davoxx
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by davoxx »

Sweet!! Is is possible to stick a C5 2.2 for engine and gear box into an Xantia without major work?
What else are you thinking about for the power hike? I presume that you don't want to go down the 2.0 TCT 350HP route?
why?
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CitroJim
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by CitroJim »

That's a nice idea Mr. Sixspeed but I don't quite understand why you're thinking of a diesel. The only power source for such a beast world be the ES9 V6 and a 4HP20 'box...

It seems a shame to go all that far and then not give it V6 power and the advantages of an auto-adaptive gearbox... All this manual gearchanging lark and having a clutch is so archaic in the third millennium...

Apart from that I'm content....

You are aware that estates are a bit different in the rear subframe and trailing arm department I trust. This might make conversion slightly more interesting than a hatch.

I see it as quite doable...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
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CitroJim
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by CitroJim »

If the reason for diesel power in your plan is economy then the answer is simple. Run the V6 on LPG...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...
Citroenmad
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by Citroenmad »

A higher powered diesel Xantia estate with Activa suspension does sound very tempting.

The 2.2 HDi is an ok engine if you strip away the DPF (which you obviously wont be fitting, you'll need to tell its ECU that) and block off the EGR. However I've never been impressed with the drive of it, its not as smooth, lively or as economical as the 2.0 HDi 136 16v. Which is the only diesel engine I would consider fitting, if possible.

if you want to go mad, fit the later 2.2HDi engine from a C5II/C5III, the 173bhp unit, then remap that! 8-)

Good luck with your project :-D
Chris
15 Citroen C4 Cactus HDi Feel - Red
14 Citroen C3 Picasso HDi Selection - Grey
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango
.
24 Toyota Yaris Hybrid
12 Ford Mondeo TDCi Business Edition
03 Seat Arosa 1.0S
6speedmanual
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Jul 2012, 23:07

Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by 6speedmanual »

Thanks for your responses folk.

I am pretty sure I will stick with diesel. Primarily due to fuel prices and the V6 will alway have a relative drink problem.
I do tow some car trailers from time to time so the big torque at lower revs works for me.
I was looking at teh 6 speed gearbox ratios in the ciroen technical parts lists. Unfortunately it seems that the highest ratio readiliy available is the ML5T from the 2.2 5 speed.
Engine options or certainly engine management options may be restricted too because of the later cars going to Can-bus the ecus have to be able to communicate with the rest of the car's electrics. It seems that the Xantia is relatively straight forward in this respect with the electonic items being to the main extent being "stand alone".
I'm still looking for an answer on using a 2.2 bottom end with a 8v head !?!

I have only just become aware that the estae rear subframe is somewhat different to the saloon. Until I have an Activa parked next to a Hydractive 2 estate it will be hard to know exactlt what is required,, but some fabrication of transplanting/grafting of braketry is expected.

So "3rd Millemium" it will never be in technology, but I'm looking for a way to pull together the best of Xantia into a real cracking package that I can run for a few years and develop as an interesting project.

Peter
davoxx
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by davoxx »

I could be wrong as I researched this a while back and I may not have even researched it properly then, but, the differences between the Activa subframe and the non Activa one is just the anti-roll bar and piping and control rods. Surely you 'just' need to transfer over the anti-roll bar (if it fits) and the rest of the pipe work.

Here is a pic of the activa system out of a car (but no rear view) http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneo ... cs-11.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and rear view http://www.citroenet.org.uk/miscellaneo ... ics-2.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
why?
Northern_Mike

Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by Northern_Mike »

If you are going to all that trouble, you need a V6 running on lpg, it'll be cheaper than diesel and have loads of power. The V6 engine is a cracker.
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DHallworth
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by DHallworth »

CitroJim wrote:The only power source for such a beast world be the ES9 V6
CitroJim wrote:If the reason for diesel power in your plan is economy then the answer is simple. Run the V6 on LPG...
Rattiva_Mike wrote:If you are going to all that trouble, you need a V6 running on lpg, it'll be cheaper than diesel and have loads of power. The V6 engine is a cracker.
Agree with all the above.

The V6 was fitted to the Xantia from the factory so the conversion will be much more straight forward. The V6 is actually surprisingly good on paper. V6 manual gearboxes are in plentiful supply from 406 Coupe's too.

At least with the V6 it'll pur instead of sounding like a tractor! [-X

**Runs and hides!**
'98 Xantia Activa V6 :-D
'00 XM V6 Exclusive
'09 C5 2.7 HDi Exclusive
‘10 C5 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'12 C6 3.0 HDi Exclusive
'15 C4 BlueHDi Feel
Hell Razor5543
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by Hell Razor5543 »

I knew I had seen an article that piqued my interest. Maybe this would be worth considering as an additional tweak (BL00DY big tweak, if you ask me (which I did!));

http://koti.mbnet.fi/css/xantia/xantiacomp.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now THAT would make your project even more fun, I think! Just the 4X4 capability would be interesting.
James
ex BX 1.9
ex Xantia 2.0HDi SX
ex Xantia 2.0HDi LX
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.0HDi VTR
ex C5 2.2HDi VTX+

Yes, I am paranoid, but am I paranoid ENOUGH?
Out amongst the stars, looking for a world of my own!
davoxx
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by davoxx »

You could have bought this http://image.artfact.com/housePhotos/ar ... 337029.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for 7k ...
why?
6speedmanual
Posts: 42
Joined: 02 Jul 2012, 23:07

Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by 6speedmanual »

OK, time for an update. Gosh it's been quiet in the Avtiva Area. No posts since mine of 22 Dec!

I have acquired a Xantia Activa. It is a fine specimen indeed benefitting from the attention of Cap'n Slow in his Activa rescue thread. Primarily the installation of a full set of spheres.

I purchased it with a friend just before Xmas. We both wanted to experience an Activa, being not just petrolheads, but both of us driving and chassis engineering nuts too.

Bought with a rather large dose of caution. Alarm bells tinkling as we were met with "Morning! Everything's fine, just topped up the LHM this morning". (!) Anyway, went off on a test drive and all the Activa aspects were working. On return a steady drip of green could be seen from the RH rear suspension area, appearing suspiciously like from the bottom of the CAR ram... 8-[
The entire underbody to the rear of the subframe seemed to covered in a film of oil grime.

Anyway, you know the saying about a fool and his money (or two in this case). Deal suitably lubricated with the inclusion of a can of 10w40 and we were on our way...

Apart from just 150m after setting off, the loss of PAS and appearance of the STOP light for 5 seconds, it performed faultlessly(ish) on the return run to Northampton. Never before has such a journey been so filled with gratuitous lane changes. Taking it in turns to lead, we zigzagged our way up the A34 to really get the hang of this body-sway free handling. Direct comparisons abounded as the collection was completed in my SX estate with baseline suspension. The most strange thing is the subtlety with which SC.CAR works. It is actually more noticeable by its absence when returning to conventionally roll-controlled car.

So... jumping on, I spent several hours on the beast over Xmas hols.

LHM leak from rear turned out to be a leak return pipe which had escaped from the 4way just above the subframe. A well documented problem. CAR ram seems ok (pheww). Went for super-dry degrease with sprayed brake cleaner so any other probs could be identified.

There was also a leak from the CAR accumulator under the battery tray dripping off. Extremely curiously, after this was sprayed down with brake cleaner, no more LHM appeared.

The third leak (oh, I forgot to mention, this was noted at the point of purchase too and we still went ahead... #-o ) was from the HP pump. This was running down the bracket and front of engine dripping (lots) off the sump. Duly cleaned up, it merely dampened in the next hour or so of running.

Things started to look promising for an MoT which had but 6 days to run by now.

In order to give a good impression to my local MoT garage, I decided on a full underbody pressure wash. On doing this, I found yet another LHM leak. this time from the LF strut leak return. This return pipe had 2 vertical hoses, as opposed to the 1 shown in parts catalogue. Even the part numbers are the same for teh baseline suspension. A previous botched repair involved teh 2nd pipe being blocked off with a M5 screw. Obviously LHM is quite happy to travle up threads. The whole LH steering knuckle below the strut was covered in damp oily clart. A repair was duly effected by supper dry cleaning the "spare" pipe and reinserting the M4 screw, this time with a dab of black gasket sealer. Sorted.

It remains a mystery as to the purpose of this "spare" tube or where it went or should go. The end of it looked as if it was hacked of with a knife. Since this fix, the LF knuckle remains bone dry. the leak rurn provided by the other pipe which is still connected. Anyone shed light on this wierd double pipe leak return block? The LF CAR ram is also totally arid.

First tried to repair the pump leak by nipping up the 3 long screws which hold the pump body together - to no avail. Then noticed the leak seemed to be coming only from the thread end of the uppermost screw. This was unscrewed all the way out and the thread area blasted with carb cleaner. Loctite thread loc'n'seal was applied to threads and screw put back in.

4 significant leaks now resolved.

I gave her a service of oil, filter, plugs (old ones were seriously tight in the head and electrodes worn oval, how long since changed???) and air filter.

We duly presented for MoT on 28th Dec, one day before expiry. Thankfully we got a pass despite the fact that the LF inner drive shaft boot was split all round. I believe it may have been overlooked as the subframe was very clean with no tell-tale grease splatter.

With MoT, I made the decision to SORN my SX and press the SC.CAR in to service on my daily 104 mile commute.

On the Sunday 30th we fitted a universal driveshaft boot kit.

And that's about it so far. I have now driven the car just over 1000 miles. Touch wood (knock) all is working fine. On my eco-commute it has returned 36mpg on the first full brim to brim calculation.

Further inspection shows we still have weeping from the rear 4 way and also from its identical twin at the front. Parts have arrived at my local Citroen garage to fix these.

What's next?
Well, the front ride ht seems about 20mm too high and the CAR control rod bushes are worn very oval. These bushes are also now waiting at Citroen garage.

I am currently thinking that it will be best to go for a full wishbone rebush and BJs, tres, control rod bushes, ride ht, tracking and CAR set up in one hit rather than several dabbling goes at sorting out what feels like a pretty tired front end.

Having said that, despite the loose feeling and a fairly poor set of P6000 (never much good at the best of times) the CAR makes the car hugely entertaining and different to drive.

Really enjoying it and this is driving the motivation to continue to "improve" it.

Will keep you posted as it develops.

Also much head scratching now as to how this fits with project Xantia 3rd Millenium.... :?:
The SX estate I current own could be the target vehicle but as it does not have Hydractive2, there are many more parts to transfer to make its suspension to SC.CAR... Hmmm. Anyone selling a nice Exclusive HDi 110 estate?

Peter
Citroenmad
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by Citroenmad »

Im pleased C'Slows Activa has found a home and that you are enjoying the car. They are pretty special to drive and can be very entertaining.
Chris
15 Citroen C4 Cactus HDi Feel - Red
14 Citroen C3 Picasso HDi Selection - Grey
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango
.
24 Toyota Yaris Hybrid
12 Ford Mondeo TDCi Business Edition
03 Seat Arosa 1.0S
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CitroJim
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Re: Vision: Xantia 3rd Millenium

Unread post by CitroJim »

Excellent stuff Peter, a very interesting update indeed...

You know you're only just up the road from me or, to put it another way, I'm just a way down the B526 from you :wink:

I must confess I was missing my own Activa so much I dug her out of hibernation over the holidays and have been having some fun with her.

So much that for the time being the XM is taking a well deserved rest...
Jim

A bit of a Citroen AX fan...