Newbie

[wurlycorner]

Hi all,

Newbie to this forum, but frequent plenty of other forums for other cars I own and previous lurker on Xantia-L and active contributor to CX-L...

As you'll see from my signature, I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to Citroens.
None currently on the road unfortunately (other cars have taken priority) but currently working on getting the Activa back.

It's been off the road for nearly 3 years. Anyway, without going into too many details, I restarted work on it a couple of weeks ago and 2 ABS sensors, rear calipers, discs and pads, and a re-packed wheel bearing later... It promptly failed the MOT for solid suspension and leaning to one side at the front.
I knew about these before hand of course, but didn't expect it to fail on them tbh and intended to get them sorted after. The suspension has always been 'solid' and I don't think the lean is that noticeable, but is enough to throw the headlight aim out now apparently.
Back when I took it off the road it did also do the activa shuffle, but that seems to have stopped now

So the solid suspension and the 'lean' had already seen the following since I've owned it, with no difference:
New OEM rear (side) suspension spheres
Hydraflush
New front control arm guides/bushes (whatever you call them)

Had a good read up on the guides on here and next up on my list then is;
- Change the front and rear centre spheres
- (and activa spheres because I expect they're also original)
- Re-check for wear on the control arms where they run through the guides
- Check the roll corrector isn't seized by manually operating the control rods (I don't think it is)
- Possibly change the control arm guides/bushes again

Then if that's all ok, I guess I'm into the horrible position of adjsuting the control rods to cure the lean?

Anything else I've missed that's worth checking at this stage?

Cheers,

[wurlycorner]

Forgot to say, I had assumed it was just stuck in firm (I don't notice any difference when I put it into firm mode) but I can hear the electrovalves buzzing when the doors are opened and then shutting up with a click after about 30 seconds, so I assume they are actually working fine and this is pointing me further towards knackered centre spheres?

[CitroJim]

Welcome Iain

Well, you have a nice little project on the go there...

The electrovalves humming only really tells you the electronics is working and not that they are actually switching hydraulically. It may well be the centre spheres and in all cases they're worth a check - the front has a habit of being either perfect or ruptured whereas the rear does loose pressure gradually as per normal.

Oddly perhaps, the Activa Balancing sphere can also cause rock-hard suspension as it acts as an Anti Roll bar firmness regulator and if ruptured/flat it stiffens the bars so much they cant give against the suspension.

Everybody forgets the Activa Accumulator under the battery tray too.

Yet another cause of rock-hard suspension is if the electrovalves don't switch correctly electrically; there’s a very simple diode modification that can be carried out to resolve this issue. Basically, there's a small diode embedded in each electrovalve coil to act as a back-emf snubber and these fail frequently. An external diode restores normality.

keep coming back with any questions and we'll get you sorted!

[wurlycorner]

Thanks.

Not good progress today!

I can't work out on gsf's website what spheres I need (the descriptions they use are just cobblers really and I know if I ring them they won't know any better!)
Lockwoods checking on availability of the spheres I mentioned (waiting for a call back)
If he can't help, I'll give aep a call.

The Citroen dealer nearest me is a Vauxhall dealer that also now sells Citroens, so as much use as a chocolate teapot when trying to buy Citroen parts... Told them to e-mail me the parts drawings over and I'd ring them back with the bits I was after.
Result? Guide blocks on order (over a week delivery time) one control arm also available in that timescale, second control arm would be 24/12/12!!!
So I told them I'd check the control arms and get back to them if I needed them (if they were available sooner, I was gonna just buy them anyway and be done with it)

No free re-test for me then - this one's gonna drag on for a couple of weeks now

[wurlycorner]

Ok so the weather was so bad last weekend and yesterday, I haven't got very far yet!

Control rod guides collected yesterday, still waiting for the short (suspension arm end( control rods - next week for first one and end of the year for the other. I didn't think I needed any of these right now tbh but just thought I'd get some spares while I still can.

Sphere's not here yet either (this week hopefully...)

But today I got out and prodded the control rods about and I think that's the problem with the wonk;
I couldn't move them by hand so got a pair of pliers round the end to get some more purcahse and made some progress..
Went to the passenger side, pulled it towards me a car instantly responded tipping towards me, pushed it away and the car went the other way. Released it and it levelled back up a bit. Then tried pulling it towards me again and I couldn't. Tried pushing it and no joy either.
Went round to the drivers side and pulled/pushed that one several times ok though it doesn't seem to automatically level up again when I let it go - it needs a little bit of persuasion.
Tried the passenger side again and repeat of the first time - once each way then won't move.
So my assumption is the linkage is partially seizing.

Haven't seen anything about how the rest of the mechanism works and haven't been under looking at it myself yet.

Any pointers on how the rods work please and where they're likely to be seized?
Are there any other guides for the rods that run across the car, or do they just go straight across from the outer ball joint, to the levelling valve?
What's the mechanism like at the levelling valve? Is it the same as a rear height corrector? (I know what this is like, I've changed one before)
What should I be expecting to have to do? Lots of stripping down and cleaning, or just liberally applying LHM to lube it up everwhere?

Cheers,

[wurlycorner]

Sphere's finally expected to arrive next week...

[wurlycorner]

Well I finally got them last weekend and enjoyed the amazingly dry/warm weather today to fit the front.

Ahhh... So that's how the front suspension is supposed to feel an on Activa!
Hydractive sphere was shot (original from what I can make out), active roll sphere seemed fine but as I'd bought one, I replaced it anyway.

Had no suggestions for what to lubricate the anti-roll corrector linkage. All looked ok when I got up close but I drenched it in silicone spray lube anyway. Not sure I could feel any difference after to be honest.
From the passenger side, the car still pulls over towards you easily and you can push it away from centre (but requires more force).
From the drivers side, you can push it away from you somewhat, but pulling it towards you just doesn't happen.

I think the problem might be the control rod ball joint on this side. Looks like this;



(it looks damp because I'd sprayed it with silicone spray lube by this time).

I can't roll it over the ball joint and by looking at it, I think it's seized. I've already ordered the link rod that goes to the suspension arm (3 month back order, due sometime in Jan) , but I think I'll order the other side of the ball joint now and replace that too - no doubt a similarly long lead time that'll stop this thing getting back on the road!

So I've got the rear hydractive and active roll sphere's to go. Might do the rear suspension accumulator sphere too while I'm there, though it looks a right pig to do (how do you get something on it to undo it?!)

[CitroJim]

Excellent work Iain I made the most of the lovely weather today as well...

The ballcup you've taken a picture of is not easy to articulate and in operation actually articulates comparatively little and only then in a lateral fore and aft motion. However, I don't like to see the ballcup tilted over like that and it's the result of careless adjustment of the roll corrector linkages. By the roll corrector quadrant you'll see two bottle-screw adjusters. Loosen off the locknuts on the outer sides (caution: one side is LH Threaded and I cannot recall which right now so be careful not to over-do the force and strip the thread!) and then rotate the ballcup so it sits flat and 90 degrees to the ball shaft. Then nip the locknuts back up again. You may need an assistant to help with holding the ballcup steady in the right place whilst you do the nipping up....

The link rods to the wishbones wear terribly where they pass through the plastic blocks visible in your picture. Keeping them lubricated is a good preventative measure. Silicone should be OK but my favourite brew is thin spray grease...

The rear centre sphere and Activa Balancing sphere can be very tight. Biblically so, especially if they've not been off in a while. A genuine Pleiades tool is just the job as it's angled just right. Often that and a good boot with your foot will get them moving but if not then resort to the old faithful club hammer and punch after raising an edge on the widest welded part of the sphere with a sharp cold chisel to give the punch some purchase.

Don't forget the Activa accumulator under the battery tray. Easiest way to deal with that one is to remove it complete with bracket after disconnecting the hydraulic pipe to it. Then you can deal with it in a vice on the bench...

[wurlycorner]

The rear centre sphere and Activa Balancing sphere can be very tight. Biblically so, especially if they've not been off in a while. A genuine Pleiades tool is just the job as it's angled just right.

I've got a tool I bought off ebay about 4 years ago - not Pleiades made, it's the one with the fixed size hoop and single bolt through.
The damn thing has only fitted one sphere so far out of the 6 or 7 I've tried! (fortunately I did eventually manage to get all previous ones off with a strap wrench).
I had a look under the back today and that's what made me wonder how I can get the rear sphere's off - my tool definitely won't go on the rear suspension accumulator and I wonder about one of the others. Didn't really fancy my chances with a a strap wrench either.

Just had a look around for Pleiades tool and I can see why you say that's the one for the job. Can only see them as group buy though? Or have I missed somewhere else I can get one?

Don't forget the Activa accumulator under the battery tray. Easiest way to deal with that one is to remove it complete with bracket after disconnecting the hydraulic pipe to it. Then you can deal with it in a vice on the bench...

Ah yes, that's the other one I did today (and that's the only sphere my tool HAS fitted thankfully).
Fortunately the union was in perfect nick and undid no problem. A good ol' boot from in front of the car did the trick with the sphere no problem

[wurlycorner]

The ballcup you've taken a picture of is not easy to articulate

Ah ok, that's good to know then, thanks - I did wonder about trying that but had run out of light by then. I'll give that a try first next time I can get on the car then.

That puts me out of ideas why that rod is such a sod to push/pull though, then?

[CitroJim]

Pleiades tools are like rocking horse poo nowadays Iain. The group buy was an attempt to see if we could raise enough interest to tempt Martin into manufacturing a batch. maybe it's time to see if we can resurrect it and see if there's enough interest.

The 'bay occasionally have them but rarely and they go for a good sum.

I know of no other tool that will do the job like the Pleiades tool will. Certainly those with the bolt through the side of the band won't - you need something that will clamp tight all around the sphere. The bolt ones have the problem of the bolt getting in the way and distorting if you give them too much welly.

A stout (very stout) chain wrench is sometimes good but with the ones at the rear it's the access to them that's the problem.

Even when you have the Pleiades tool some are just too recalcitrant and then it's time to resort to hammer and punch - that never fails...

[CitroJim]

That puts me out of ideas why that rod is such a sod to push/pull though, then?

They are very hard to push/pull Iain. You are compressing some stiff springs in the roll corrector for one thing...

I have a sturdy hooked tool I use to pull on them to test the basic function of the roll corrector. The movement is very, very small and just like height correctors a small movement makes a big effect on the rams. Pushing on them won't make them work - they have to be pulled.

That's why any wear in the rods at all, even very small amounts can cause the 'Activa Shuffles'. It's a very sensitive system...

[wurlycorner]

Blimey!

Was it really this long ago that I was last working on the car? Anyway, it's all systems go on this car again and it's needed back on the road asap!!!

To tidy this up a bit, the latest goings on with the car are now in a profile thread (or blog as they seem to be called on here?). Link is in my signature below...

[ACTIVE8]

That puts me out of ideas why that rod is such a sod to push/pull though, then?

They are very hard to push/pull Iain. You are compressing some stiff springs in the roll corrector for one thing...

I have a sturdy hooked tool I use to pull on them to test the basic function of the roll corrector. The movement is very, very small and just like height correctors a small movement makes a big effect on the rams. Pushing on them won't make them work - they have to be pulled.

That's why any wear in the rods at all, even very small amounts can cause the 'Activa Shuffles'. It's a very sensitive system...

I remember the shuffles I had before the "P" clips were changed.

I would be at a set of lights waiting, and the Activa would "shuffle" I got used to it before the parts were changed, but it was fun seeing the reaction from other motorists.