Xantia Front Brake Hoses

[howardaskew]

I am trying to remove uncooperative front brake hoses.

They have deteriorated rubbers.

I can remove them from the caliper but the other end is tougher.

The spanner has slipped on the brake pipe nut.

Even if I disconnect the nut will the pipe come out?

I am thinking I need to get some serious grips to remove the pipe and then possibly replace the pipe.

Is anyone able to come up with any ideas for me please?

Have not posted on here for a while because I have been able to manage most tasks.

I will appreciate any replies.

H

[Estately]

Hi Howard,
I had to remove the driver’s side on our Xantia 2.0 Ltr HDI 90 (Dec 2000) last weekend. A Spray with Plus Gas to start proceedings into the back of the connector along the pipe as well as on the thread is always worthwhile. Give it time to penetrate.

Turn the wheel fully to the right and use a small wire brush to clear any loose rust and dirt on the connector taking care not to damage the black plastic coating on the brake pipe.

The metal end of the rubber pipe is held in the welded bracket by a spring clip inboard and to prevent rotation it is “gear” shaped.
Access is a little awkward in that there is no room to turn a long spanner (11mm) so I used a couple of mole grips taking care not to squeeze the pipe connector too tightly in case it is deformed out of round. That is - one grip on the metal part of the rubber pipe and a smaller one on the pipe connector.

The rubber pipe then retracts back off the metal pipe as you undo the thread, the metal pipe is then in the correct position when the new pipe is fitted.

I felt that the spanner was going to create a flat on the connector but the mole grips did the job no problem.

The job had to be done because the metal outer casing of the speedometer drive had rubbed on the driver’s side metal front brake pipe, caused rust and obviously a small hole followed by an LHM shower under car. Not easy to find, but with engine tray removed and car well supported worth checking, just follow the speedo drive from the gearbox passenger side until it heads up somewhere under where the driver’s feet are, make sure it is not touching the brake pipe.
Hope that helps.

Andy

[Old-Guy]

Howard
If you PM me with an e-mail address, I'll send you a 'complete' guide (PDF file) on how to change front brake hoses. Done 4 so far. Haven't had time yet to ad to my webpage.

[howardaskew]

Hi Andy,

Hi Guy,

I managed to complete the right hand side and replace the hose.
Unfortunately the left hand side has proved more difficult.

I ordered a Sealy VS0342 tool that should have made undoing the brake pipe a simpler task.

Unfortunately it was not despatched by PVR until Friday. Seems like the person who checks web orders had a few days off. I won't be ordering tools from them again.

I think I have damaged the brake pipe which I will have to replace. I might crush it with a clamp and saw it off.

I then hope to replace the front left hand side pipe entirely.

Not sure how easy that will be to do.

Its always a problem working on 14 year old vehicles.

I will report back my success or lack of it.

[citronut]

if you have damaged the metal pipe now, the best way forwared is to lop of the metal pipe by the back of the nut then get a hex socket onto it, then have a new metal pipe made up in kunifer

[howardaskew]

Hi Malcolm,

What is Kunifer?

I will get the pipe off even if I have to hacksaw it off!

But I won't attempt it until I have a new pipe.

Reading the forum the brake pipe is a special size so no attempt should be made to make one yourself.

I will probably buy the Citroen replacement pipe.

Does anyone fancy replacing the pipe in Maidstone?

I would pay of course.

I expect the whole pipe will be tricky to remove at the manifold.

Thank you for all your replies.

[myglaren]

Kunifer.

Kunifer tube is a mixture of 90% cupro and 10% nickel. It has good corrosion resistance and is ideal for solid brake and fuel lines where flexibility is not required.

From the name I always presumed that it was a mixture of Copper (Cu) Nickel (Ni) and Iron (Fe) but looks like I was incorrect on the last one.
Nothing like research to demolish assumptions.

[Xaccers]

Kunifer.

Kunifer tube is a mixture of 90% cupro and 10% nickel. It has good corrosion resistance and is ideal for solid brake and fuel lines where flexibility is not required.

From the name I always presumed that it was a mixture of Copper (Cu) Nickel (Ni) and Iron (Fe) but looks like I was incorrect on the last one.
Nothing like research to demolish assumptions.

It does contain a bit of iron for strengthening purposes.

[citronut]

i have never done any studies on XANT metal brake pipes but im sure some if not all are stranded copper/kunifer pipe with conventional flared , used in general car repair workshops to make up replacement brake pipes,

if im correct the easiest way would remove the old pipe then either make a new one yourself if you have a brake pipe flaring tool for conventional cars, or take it to a local garage who will copy the original

i think also some of these pipes are no longer available from citroen ,

[Old-Guy]

Kunifer.

Kunifer tube is a mixture of 90% cupro and 10% nickel. It has good corrosion resistance and is ideal for solid brake and fuel lines where flexibility is not required.

From the name I always presumed that it was a mixture of Copper (Cu) Nickel (Ni) and Iron (Fe) but looks like I was incorrect on the last one.
Nothing like research to demolish assumptions.

Your original presumption is correct - a classic case of "Don't believe everything you read on the web".

There is a whole family of CuNiFer alloys, many of which contain small proportions of various other metals. They are all highly resistant to salt water corrosion so are widely used for a wide variety of marine applications - from complete yacht hulls to injection pipes on marine diesels. The particular Cunifer alloy used for automotive brake lines is formulated to give good ductility so it can (unlike steel brake pipe) be readily bent (and re-bent) by hand. The only reason vehicle manufacturers use steel brake lines is to save a pound or two on the cost of a vehicle.

'Kunifer' seems to be a proprietary name for a trio of specific Cunifer alloys produced by Ireland Alloys of Mid-Lothian, all of which contain a small proportion of iron.

[handyman]

Howard, if you get really stuck on this pipe, email me as I'm not far in Horsmonden.

Handyman

[howardaskew]

Managed to repair the brakes by making a new pipe. I bought the basic flange tool and made up the ends myself as the motor factors who make up pipes were not open saturday.

I had a couple of leaks I had to nip up and the car only just made it through the MOT as there was a brake imbalance caused by possibly some air in the system.

Received an advisory for a minor leak to the rear exhaust back box.

But the important thing is that the car is now through the annual MOT at 15 years of age!

I fitted new drop links and changed the plugs and the car is running nicely still.

I will do some more jobs before the winter rainy season and if it gets through next years MOT without too many problems then it might run for 2 more years!

Many thanks to all who helped me with ideas and hope it was useful to other Xantia owners.

[zs&tas]

This seems to suggest that stock brake pipe sizes work ? 4.76mm ?

[Stewart(oily)]

Some of the Xantia brake and steering pipes are equivalent to common imperial brake pipe sizes, also caravan gas compression fittings, well worth knowing.