B*U*M*S B*U*M*S and B*U*M*S

[citronut]

yesterday eve we were on our way home from my workshop up Battle rd (view map in link )

http://tinyurl.com/cbjk9c3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

a late silver Astra had been up my back bumper for a couple of minutes so i was driving at a reduced speed, as we got to the Battle rd junction with Old Harrow rd the Astra stopped to turn right into Old Harrow rd, i did not notice if his O/S indicator was on,

at the same time as he started to cross the white line a large motor bike decided to over take him and was hit by the Astra,
the bike rider went flying and the bike continued on its own up the road then veered into the O/S/R door and sill of my BX TZD which i have only just put on

the road at the beginning of may,

it stoved the door and the sill right in

my wife back,shoulder and her right knee which she had a partial replacement the beginning of February were hurting, so she was taken up to A&E in an ambulance, so guess what we were doing for the next 4.5 hours ( waiting in an A&E bay to be seen by the doctor )

this BX was quite straight and tidy pre accident,

ps.
the traffic WPC was saying the Astra driver did not have to be indicating right before his maneuver, i think this is utter rubbish,

not very happy
malcolm

[Timmo]

How is the motorcyclist???

[citronut]

im not sure but they kept him lying on the road for about an hour before putting him on the body board to move him,
in this time he was shaking a lot,

also the Police un/marked traffic car that turned up had with her a television camera man filming the scene,

we will be on Police camera action next

regards malcolm

[DickieG]

Oh dear, best wishes to the Mrs.

the traffic WPC was saying the Astra driver did not have to be indicating right before his maneuver, i think this is utter rubbish

Whether or not the Astra was indicating is pretty irrelevant, yes it's advisable/polite to indicate and it may be argued that if the Astra didn't indicate it could be a contributory factor but the bottom line is that the motorcyclist has committed the cardinal sin of overtaking on the approach to a junction right so it's down to him.

Other clues would have been there to be read such as the Astra slowing/changing position, plus what was the depth of vision into the junction right, was it sufficient to take into account a vehicle pulling out from the junction? Speed limit and the motorcyclists speed of approach? Was he riding at such a speed that it was outside the expectations of other road users? By the sound of it he committed to the overtake far too early and clearly didn't scan the offside of the road prior to committing so he's had a hard/steep learning experience which he'll hopefully recover from.

[citronut]

the traffic WPC was saying the Astra driver did not have to be indicating right before his maneuver, i think this is utter rubbish

Whether or not the Astra was indicating is pretty irrelevant, yes it's advisable/polite to indicate and it may be argued that if the Astra didn't indicate it could be a contributory factor

i thought/was always taught you are meant to let other road user's no what your intention are,

Was he riding at such a speed that it was outside the expectations of other road users? By the sound of it he committed to the overtake far too early and clearly didn't scan the offside of the road prior to committing so he's had a hard/steep learning experience which he'll hopefully recover from.

i agree with this as it is what i think happend, judging by how far the bike went after the initial impact with the Astra, then went on still up on its wheels to take a large ark to the right and come back round to the right in a straight line at the O/S/R door of my car,

which was probably three cars length further up the road by this point,


i also dont belive the Astra driver was aware ( completely oblivious ) i had slowed my speed right down as a direct response to him driving far to close to my back bumper,


regards malcolm

[DickieG]

i thought/was always taught you are meant to let other road user's no what your intention are

You should let other road users know of your intentions but even if the Astra didn't indicate the fact remains that the motorcyclist embarked on what was clearly a dangerous overtake where he didn't take into account the junction right and that it was an option for the Astra to take, end of story really.

If the motorcyclist was riding at an appropriate distance using good skills of observation, anticipation and planning he wouldn't have needed the Astra to indicate, after all the Astra would have had to start to slow and or change position in order to start the right turn manoeuvre, clearly he wasn't doing this as he rode into the side of the Astra so his riding skills were below that expected of a reasonable motorcyclist.

If it could be proved that the Astra didn't indicate some injury claim solicitors may want to argue that it was a contributing factor to the collision but little more than that from what I can see Malcolm, the evidence you've presented pretty much puts all the blame on the motorcyclist from what I can see.

[Northern_Mike]

I hope you and the wife recover quickly from the accident, and that the motorcyclist is not too badly injured. When I crashed my motorbike, they kept me lying down for a long too, even though I knew I was ok - well, I had a broken ankle, but I hadn't even hit my head or done anything that could have damaged my neck or back. Hit the kerb with my foot sliding along on my bottom..

Similar to your accident, years ago, my brother was turning right here http://tinyurl.com/7xuk87e" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (google streetmaps link). As he turned, he was hit in the drivers door and front wing of his BX (see, it is French car related!) by a Sierra 4x4 that was overtaking him at high speed - the police reckoned it was 60+. It was enough to smash him 50 yds up the road, rip the subframe from it's mountings, and make a mess of the car. The Sierra hit the small dry stone wall at the top of Hougton Avenue, spun along the wall, smashed the telegraph pole, ripped 3 of it's 4 wheels off and collected a Mini Metro coming the other way before coming to a rest in the middle of the road. My bro called me, so I went up on my motorbike and it looked like a war zone, bits of car everywhere, a fire engine (lots of spilt fuel) and a pole lying across the road.

The 4 passengers in the Sierra (it was unlicensed, uninsured!) were still in the car when I got there, being extracted by police and ambulancemen, it was a mess and they were all groggy. My brother was sat on the wall smoking a cigarette, like nothing had happened, though he did go to hospital and they found severe whiplash, a leg injury and a damaged back. He's skinny and light, so not much to damage! He ended up with about £6k in compensation after a couple of court appearances - the driver tried to counter-sue him, unsuccessfully . My brother savaged the driver's solicitor so badly the judge mentioned how impressed he was, and suggested he consider a career in law..

First thing the police did when they got to his car was lean through the window and see if the indicators were on. They were, of course, though they had to ask him to point them out, it being an old Satellite dash BX.

edit : The "amusing" part of this whole thing was that a chap jumped out of the garden behind the road sign and offered to be a witness. He'd jumped over the wall out of the way of the oncoming Sierra!

[Xaccers]

Judges love it when you savage the other counsel
When Danielle's dad wash shunted from behind so hard the boot was up behind his seat which was broken along with many of his bones, the other side's solicitor/barrister tried to make out the impact of the injuries wasn't that bad so Danielle's mum totally put them in their place like a lioness protecting her cub and it really impressed the judge

[citronut]

i thought/was always taught you are meant to let other road user's no what your intention are

You should let other road users know of your intentions but even if the Astra didn't indicate the fact remains that the motorcyclist embarked on what was clearly a dangerous overtake where he didn't take into account the junction right and that it was an option for the Astra to take, end of story really.

If the motorcyclist was riding at an appropriate distance using good skills of observation, anticipation and planning he wouldn't have needed the Astra to indicate, after all the Astra would have had to start to slow and or change position in order to start the right turn manoeuvre, clearly he wasn't doing this as he rode into the side of the Astra so his riding skills were below that expected of a reasonable motorcyclist.

If it could be proved that the Astra didn't indicate some injury claim solicitors may want to argue that it was a contributing factor to the collision but little more than that from what I can see Malcolm, the evidence you've presented pretty much puts all the blame on the motorcyclist from what I can see.

i was of a mind all of what you are saying is correct, although the Astra driver obviously doesn't know how to drive/any road sense either,


regards malcolm

[Xaccers]

Astra drivers - wannabe Vectra drivers who are themselves wannabe BMW drivers (the bad sort).
In the same group as Audi and VW drivers.

[andmcit]

Similar scenario for my BiL driving my Sis' beloved Citroen C4 when they were in Truro, Cornwall on holiday on his birthday...

Rush hour traffic on the way home and a que of vehicles saw the bike overtake all the stationary cars as my BiL pulled out of the traffic into a car showroom entrance to turn around - he'd got lost and was retracing his steps to last roundabout.

The bike hit the driver's wheel full on and snapped the lower balljoint clean off it's lug mounting on the hub rendering the car undrivable and stranded in the middle of the road at rush hour!! The biker went over the car and dislocated his shoulder but was lucky not to collect an on oncoming car. Yep, nothing against bikers (my Dad and the BiL are ones!) but this guy was uninsured and had no MOT. The insurance company still saw it as 20% my BiL and 80% blame on the biker and both my sister and her hubby got stuffed with the insurance premium and ended out of pocket £350 after the car eventually got repaired.

It's still a sore point when mentioned and there are no plans to ever visit Truro ever again.

[Timmo]

Now that's a bit Harsh on truro! Its Really not that bad!!
Rush our though, worth avoiding!

[steelcityuk]

Sorry to hear of the accident and the damage to your car but it sounds to me as if two idiots literally bumped into each other. So many drivers are in a world of their own that stops at the end of their bonnet and too many bikers these days seem to think the highway code is for 'others' to obey. Living on the edge of the Peak District I see a lot of it. A friend of mine saw a biker giving it some beans on a roundabout right on the border with Derbyshire, the bike went over the stone wall and the biker went under the car and no he didn't come out the end.

Steve.
Ex Biker
Ex Cylist

[citronut]

update on the bike rider
he has one broken leg a broken arm and collar bone, neck and shoulder and various other miner injuries


regards malcolm

[Timmo]

ouch!!