Roadside emissions test - did I pass ?

[Mandrake]

I was out for a drive in the sunshine today in the V6 only to be pulled over for a spot roadside emissions test...

In 20 years of driving in NZ I never encountered a roadside emissions test, nor did it even occur to me that there might be such a thing, so I was a bit caught off guard, expecting them to be breathalysing me or checking my drivers license / MOT

They did their 30 second tailpipe test and then waved me on with no complaints, but it later occurred to me if I failed would they tell me, or would they just record my number plate and send me an automated fine in the mail in the next few weeks...

[RichardW]

They'd tell you - possibly by issue of a Fixed Penalty Notice... It's something which South Lanarkshire are keen on - got stopped just down the road from home. Didn't think at the time, but the engine was near cold, and they asked me to rev to red line (ha, the whole laybay diasppeared in black smoke ). Next time I shall refuse as the MOT test has to be done at full operating temp, and revving the nuts off an unloaded cold engine is not good for it

[Mandrake]

They'd tell you - possibly by issue of a Fixed Penalty Notice... It's something which South Lanarkshire are keen on - got stopped just down the road from home.

This was Glasgow city council, and I was in an urban area somewhere near the shotts. (not sure exactly where, I was just aimlessly driving on a sunny day )

Didn't think at the time, but the engine was near cold, and they asked me to rev to red line (ha, the whole laybay diasppeared in black smoke ). Next time I shall refuse as the MOT test has to be done at full operating temp, and revving the nuts off an unloaded cold engine is not good for it

Hahaha... no they didn't ask me to rev the engine, possibly because its a petrol... the engine was well warmed up and had had some recent spirited driving, so probably the best possible time to check it, but you have a good point with the diesel - its a bit unfair to perform such a test on a cold diesel, nor is it acceptable for them to ask you to fully rev it when its cold...

I wonder how legally enforceable their test is if you were to refuse it, since its just a local council performing it rather than an MOT station ?

[Xaccers]

I would imagine they could issue you with a requirement to take it to a test station, and if you refuse that then a fine/removal of vehicle may occur.

Or they may ask you to idle until the engine was up to temperature.

[RichardW]

Or they may ask you to idle until the engine was up to temperature.

They'd have gone home before it got warm - it was well below freezing, and it was an HDi - they will not get above about 70 idling on a cold day, and even that takes ages....

[HDI]

A construction & use notice to rectify the problem would be issued, with 14 days to comply. If not then the vehicle becomes prohibited from use.
It's strange that in some area's these tests never seem to happen but in others they do. I've only ever known a roadside check by a VOSA team once, on the way upto Manchester, towing a car transporter behind the race teams van. They checked safety and towing weight compliance and also whether it was a hire or reward job. If it had been, different insurance would have been required.

[markflip]

From Dumbarton Council's website:

The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (Scotland) Regulations 2003 enable Local Authorities to check vehicles at the roadside to ensure they are not exceeding prescribed emission limits These Regulations provide Local Authorities with an additional tool for managing air quality within their area. The scheme is designed to encourage owners to have their vehicles regularly serviced in accordance with manufacturer's recommendations.

The Regulations authorise trained Local Authority personnel using approved equipment to carry out a roadside check of any vehicle and issue a £60 Fixed Penalty Notice to the driver of any vehicle found to be exceeding the maximum emission limits prescribed by the above legislation. The initial test is very simple and only takes a few minutes to complete. If the vehicle fails this test a more in depth formal test is carried out. The payment of the Fixed Penalty Notice will be waived completely if satisfactory evidence is submitted (within the set timescale) proving that the vehicle has been repaired and now complies with the legal emission standards.

So it sounds like a £60 quid fine, waived if you can get it to pass an emissions (presumably MOT stadard?) test.

I'd be interested to read the 'small print' in the act regarding getting the engine to operating temperature etc, seems a bit silly to potentially have a car sat idling for 15 minutes in order to take a test designed to reduce emissions??

The reason this is 'hit & miss' is that councils have to apply to the Secretary of State to obtain the powers and designate their 'patch' an Air Quality Management Area (and would no doubt have to show they had suitably qualified staff, equipment etc) I guess not all councils chose to do so (probably due to the costs involved).

Only VOSA or an authorised Police Officer (and there aren't that many) can prohibit a vehicle, councils only have the power to issue fixed penalties. Police can only prohibit immediately, which for emissions means emitting smoke or pollutatnts "likely to obscure vision or cause danger to road users". VOSA can issue delayed prohibitions (14 days to pass an MOT basically) if a vehicle fails the MOT standard by 10% or more or "constantly emits dense blue, or visibly black smoke at idle".

[Jabo]

This is very common in Ibrox in Glasgow. There's a large, empty car park where the VOSA guys are always set up to do tests. The cops stand in the street outside ushering vehicles in. Most vehicles get to drive past, it just seems it's their discretion when they choose a vehicle to come in.

[Mandrake]

Only VOSA or an authorised Police Officer (and there aren't that many) can prohibit a vehicle, councils only have the power to issue fixed penalties.

Interesting. They identified themselves as Glasgow city council, so I take it then they could issue a fine but not put the car off the road...

This is very common in Ibrox in Glasgow. There's a large, empty car park where the VOSA guys are always set up to do tests. The cops stand in the street outside ushering vehicles in. Most vehicles get to drive past, it just seems it's their discretion when they choose a vehicle to come in.

I checked on google maps and I'm pretty sure I found the layover where they pulled me over, in Avenue End Road near Hoggenfield Loch. They did seem to be letting most cars in front and behind me go past, so possibly I was singled out for having an old car on the other hand there was only room for 3 cars in the layover so perhaps they were just stopping as many as they could and I was unlucky.

Nice to know that I passed anyway. What would be a typical fail reason for a petrol anyway ? Burnt out catalytic converter ? Fouled spark plugs ?

[Xaccers]

There was a chap on the radio recently who was having to pay nearly £1000 in fines due to a vehicle check stop, not because of the vehicle but because some council busybody claimed he was smoking in the van while he was standing outside it talking to the PC who pulled him over and escortd him to the area where vehicles were being tested, and he'd asked the PC if he minded if he had a cigarette, to which he was told no problem.
He's adamant he was not in the van, and it wasn't a work van it was his personal one as his work van was in being repaired (not sure how that affects the smoking at work law, I thought it was only in company vehicles so if you were using your own it was OK), even the PC turned to the busybody and said "You're having a #*&$% laugh aren't you?"
Rather than ask the smoker for his details, allegedly the busybody copied them off the PC's forms.
It went to court, the council said he was definitely smoking in the van, and referenced the motorcycle PC who escorted him into the area, except it wasn't a motorcycle PC it was a police car.
Court sided with the council, he's an unhappy chappy who feels he's been made an example of to the detrement of justice, and is now debating whether it's worth appealing. Thing is, had he paid the fine within 2 weeks etc it would have only been £30, so I would have thought he'd be pretty sure he wasn't smoking in the van to take it as far as court. Pity he wasn't able to get in touch with the PC as a witness, would have been great to have had his opinion read out in court

[DickieG]

Pity he wasn't able to get in touch with the PC as a witness

That wouldn't have been very difficult, the fact that he didn't no doubt had an effect on the outcome of the case.

[Deanxm]

A construction & use notice to rectify the problem would be issued, with 14 days to comply. If not then the vehicle becomes prohibited from use.
It's strange that in some area's these tests never seem to happen but in others they do. I've only ever known a roadside check by a VOSA team once, on the way upto Manchester, towing a car transporter behind the race teams van. They checked safety and towing weight compliance and also whether it was a hire or reward job. If it had been, different insurance would have been required.

If it was hire or reward you may have been subject to drivers hours rules and need an operators license, dont ask how i know, its been a long two weeks

Good news on the free emmissions test though Simon, at least you know she is in fine fettle and ready for the MOT

D

[Jabo]

Nice to know that I passed anyway. What would be a typical fail reason for a petrol anyway ? Burnt out catalytic converter ? Fouled spark plugs ?

Failing cat, spark plugs, ignition coil or leads. Also exhaust leaks caused by holes in the system or missing clamps.
Can probably also be caused by having a failing lambda sensor or maybe coolant temp sensor as these are both related to ignition timing and fueling.

[Xaccers]

Pity he wasn't able to get in touch with the PC as a witness

That wouldn't have been very difficult, the fact that he didn't no doubt had an effect on the outcome of the case.

I'd have loved to have been in the court room as it leaves so many questions, such as did he call his co-worker as a witness?
I wonder if he thought "I was outside the van, I know I was, they're not going to be dishonest in their statement so I don't need anyone with me" and from the sounds of the council statement they were somewhat mistaken with the facts.

[markflip]

Got interested in this and this site is very good and will apply equally in England and Wales:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications ... 6984/21399" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - keep clicking on 'next' and it goes through the whole shabang

Of interest:
1 The council have no legal power to stop a vehicle on a road (they need a police officer to do this - I assume from the breathalyser comment in the original post it was a police officer who pulled Mandrake over?)
2 You can refuse to take the test then and there and defer it, but then you will have to pay for an MOT test to be done in the next 14 days (so you might as well take a free test and hope??)
3 The advice is to only give fixed penalties for vehicles that fail by more than 10% above MOT standard
4 Some councils have done 'voluntary' emissions checks in the past - at these they have no power to test your vehicle without your consent or to detain you to do so, they usually do these at car parks etc, where they don't use a police officer to stop vehicles
5 These regulations only apply to vehicles 'in or about to enter a designated as an air quality management area' so it might be worth knowing whether your local council has been designated
6 It's obvious really, is there much point pulling in a 12 month old car to check its emissions? If you drive an older car you're more likely to be checked at one of these.
7 If you happen to be in a designated area you can be fined £20 for sitting with your engine running for no reason too, although education should be the first option ie 'would you mind turning your engine off please'