I'm back! (And looking for a Citroen...)

[Mandrake]

Blue! Seems you can get coolant in every colour of the rainbow

The reason I asked is that a lot of Xantia's (including my 2 litre) were originally shipped with a non glycol based orange coloured coolant, and as far as I know its very bad to mix this type of coolant with standard glycol based coolant, as the mixture chemically reacts and accelerates corrosion... If changing from one to the other you're supposed to thoroughly flush the system to prevent mixing of the two. (By the time I owned my 2 litre Xantia previous owners had already changed it over to a green glycol based coolant so when I changed the coolant on that I kept the same type to avoid any further mixing of types...)

So for topping up existing coolant I'd rather stick to the same formulation thats already in there...does anyone know if blue and green ethylene glycol are compatible with each other ? (Or is there no significance to the colour if they're both ethylene glycol ?)

[lexi]

Bluecol is a popular Blue eth/gly antifreeze sometimes even available in supermarkets.

No idea about green and blue mixing. If they are both standard though it may be ok?

[Clogzz]

Blue and green are the usual ethylene glycol coolants that can be mixed.
Blue is the original fill until about 2000, and is good for longer than green.
Orange is the new OAT, organic acid technology coolant that shouldn’t be mixed with blue or green.

I have a mixture of orange and green, and think that the only consequence is that the change interval is reduced to the green coolant mileage.
I’ll let you know if and when it turns to disaster.

[CitroJim]

Pleased you're happy with the V6 Simon Fuel economy is about right for conditions you're running it under. Get it on a run and it'll be much, much better. 35mpg is quite possible...

Sounds normal for the gearbox characteristics, it can be annoying at times but it's a symptom of the electronics making the wrong decision. Most of the time it does OK though. It has a 'fuzzy logic' system and sometimes it's fuzzier than others

So is the idle characteristic, they all do that sir!

[thorter]

As far as I know, both OAT and conventional antifreeze are glycol based, but the inhibiters are not compatible. Unfortunately, the colour does not seem to be any indication of which is which. See http://www.glysantin.com/15-1-Product-O ... ml?pid=g33

For the G33 antifreeze (OAT) specified for post 2000 year Citroens, the inhibiter is made by a division of BASF. The PSA branded G33 antifreeze is indeed bluish green. Other licensees such as Comma probably use a different colour.

Unfortunately it is difficult to work out what has been in the car, or to be sure what you are buying.

Fred

[xantia_v6]

Here's another one for you V6 experts

The temperature warning light at the top of the temperature gauge comes on when the car is cold and first started, then flickers in and out intermittently for the first bit of driving, also bringing the stop light on. After a while it goes out, and it seems to be related to movement, coming on and off with engine movement. Obviously the engine is not overheated when its cold so its a sensor problem.

I had much the same problem on my 2 litre - which had a temperature sensor at the top of the radiator, and all it was was a dirty connector near the top of the radiator which I cleaned to fix the problem. I assume there is a similar sensor somewhere on the radiator on the V6 ? Can anyone tell me where the connector for it is so I can try cleaning it ? (or suggest what else it might be)

The most likely temperature sensor is the (brown) Bitron sensor, which is near the thermostat (below the throttle body). Not the easiest thing to replace unless you have the manifold off (e.g. to replace the sparak plugs).

[Mandrake]

The most likely temperature sensor is the (brown) Bitron sensor, which is near the thermostat (below the throttle body). Not the easiest thing to replace unless you have the manifold off (e.g. to replace the sparak plugs).

Looks like its not a sensor fault - topped up the coolant and the light went off immediately and hasn't come back on again. (I hate "multifunction" warning lights... is there a shortage of bulbs or LED's in the world ? ) Of course that leaves the question of why the coolant was low...

[Mandrake]

Blue and green are the usual ethylene glycol coolants that can be mixed.
Blue is the original fill until about 2000, and is good for longer than green.
Orange is the new OAT, organic acid technology coolant that shouldn’t be mixed with blue or green.

I have a mixture of orange and green, and think that the only consequence is that the change interval is reduced to the green coolant mileage.
I’ll let you know if and when it turns to disaster.

Yes, its OAT I'm thinking of. My 1997 2 litre VSX Xantia handbook specified Orange OAT based coolant as the original coolant, although sometime between new and the time I bought it it had been changed over to a standard green ethylene glycol based coolant...so when I did a coolant change I stayed with that. Perhaps the transition year depends on which market it was sold in, my NZ Xantia was originally sold new in Japan. (A large percentage of NZ second hand cars are Japanese imports)

The warning light went out with less than half a litre of coolant added, and it took around 3/4 to 1 litre to top up to what I presume is the correct level. (Level with the top of the vertical "pipe" inside the expansion bottle ? Again, I don't have an owners handbook to clarify that...)

I ended up getting some standard blue ethylene glycol concentrate from halfords as they're just up the road from work, and mixing it 50/50.

Of course the question is why was the level low, no doubt the missing coolant is under the passenger side carpet, which I don't really want to look at right now....

[CitroJim]

Of course the question is why was the level low, no doubt the missing coolant is under the passenger side carpet, which I don't really want to look at right now....

Or a split expansion tank (the one up on the bulkhead) Simon. All too common a failing. It goes around the seam half-way up...

If it's the matrix you'll smell it. Curry anyone?

[Mandrake]

Or a split expansion tank (the one up on the bulkhead) Simon. All too common a failing. It goes around the seam half-way up...

Hmm ok. Am I likely to see the split in-situ ?

If it's the matrix you'll smell it. Curry anyone?

Despite being warned that there may be a heater matrix leak I can't smell one. I don't have the best sense of smell to be fair, but my girlfriend hasn't noticed any smell either. If there is a matrix leak its either very minor or it's stopped. On the other hand the inside of the windows do fog up when parked in below zero weather. (in fact I had ICE form on the inside of the windscreen during a particularly cold morning )

[CitroJim]

Simon, yes, the tank splitting will be very obvious. White stains will be seen on it...

In my experience, the V6 uses a tad of water by normal but not much. The cooling system is a right plumbers nightmare and a lot of pipes are out of sight; obscured by the airbox and the LHM reservoir. Check them all both on the side of the engine and to the transmission cooler. Also, there's metal pipes going into the head distribution block on O rings and these can harden and leak. All leaks will be obvious though if you look...

The Xantia is sadly a bit of a keen thing to steam up in cold, damp weather and often this is because there's a scuttle leak allowing water to accumulate under the passenger footwell carpet due to an inadequate seal on the windscreen scuttle panel. It's vital that this panel is well bonded to the screen over the passenger side half otherwise rainwater off the roof and windscreen goes straight into the heater air intake and straight under the carpet. There's foam underlay under there that can absorb absolute gallons of the stuff.

But as I say, even on a bone-dry one they will still mist up just for the sheer pleasure of it. Never known a car so bad for it

Sounds like the matrix is OK though. The smell can be out of all proportion to the size of the leak and a very tiny one will whiff like mad...

[xantia_v6]

Simon, yes, the tank splitting will be very obvious. White stains will be seen on it...
In my experience, the V6 uses a tad of water by normal but not much.

My experience is that a split header tank does not cause the coolant warning light to come on, because the sensor level is below the seam where they split. I have been through a couple of these and have now given up replacing them, just keeping the coolant level below the seam. Mine uses very little water, maybe a cupful every 5000 miles, despite the split tank.

Look carefully around the radiator for signs of seepage, most of the originals seem to have failed by now.

[Mandrake]

Simon, yes, the tank splitting will be very obvious. White stains will be seen on it...

White stains around the seam of the tank - check!

The Xantia is sadly a bit of a keen thing to steam up in cold, damp weather and often this is because there's a scuttle leak allowing water to accumulate under the passenger footwell carpet due to an inadequate seal on the windscreen scuttle panel. It's vital that this panel is well bonded to the screen over the passenger side half otherwise rainwater off the roof and windscreen goes straight into the heater air intake and straight under the carpet. There's foam underlay under there that can absorb absolute gallons of the stuff.

I actually had a lot of trouble with my previous Xantia's windscreen fogging up in cold weather when I first got it - even in NZ where it doesn't get nearly as cold. What I found was wrong was there was an invisible slightly sticky coating of some sort on the inside of the glass. What it was I dont know, (some sort of dashboard cleaning solution or spray mistakenly used on the glass ? buildup from coolant mist leaking from the matrix ? I don't know)...I thoroughly cleaned the inside of the windscreen with meths and a soft cloth - no more window fogging! I think I only cleaned it like that a couple of times in 4 years and it was pretty much fogging proof after that. I might try that on this car, although we haven't had any weather to induce fogging lately anyway.

Sounds like the matrix is OK though. The smell can be out of all proportion to the size of the leak and a very tiny one will whiff like mad...

Well I asked my girlfriend again today when we were out in the car if she could smell curry and she said yes but that it wasn't very strong. I can't smell it at all. I guess there is a bit of a leak and the carpet is probably soaked underneath.

[Mandrake]

So I thought I'd bleed and check the rear brakes today as they didn't seem to be working at all, (slightest touch of the brakes sent the rear end up to the top bump stops...) so off with the wheels (after a brief panic upon discovering security wheel bolts are fitted and not knowing where to find the socket bits for them! ) and my heart sank - both callipers have the infamous rust build up on the calliper mounting face that is pushing them out of alignment with the disc. On the left side its so bad the disc is actually just touching the calliper.

One of the left pads was actually rusted solid to the calliper as well and couldn't move at all. So I removed the pads and freed up the pistons (which actually weren't too bad) refitted the pads and bled them. There was some air from both sides but not a huge amount, I've certainly seen far worse before. The pads are in pretty bad shape partly due to the misalignment of the calliper but I had no choice but to put them back in and wait until I can get new pads and attack the rusted calliper issue.

I fully expected them not to be any better but much to my surprise they're actually working very well - no more lifting at the back with modest braking, only a small amount of lifting with quite heavy braking, and the brakes overall feel far more sensitive and responsive than before despite the terrible misalignment. If I hadn't seen the state of the calliper I wouldn't have even assumed there was a problem based on how well they're working now.

The rusted calliper misalignment is not something I've had to deal with before (none of our Xantia's in NZ suffered from it) so I guess I'll have to browse the threads here to find how best to sort it out. Does anyone know if it can be done without removing the hydraulic pipe from the calliper ? I ask because a 9mm spanner is very loose, but an 8mm wont come anywhere near fitting, so I'm not even sure if its an 8mm nut with lots of rust buildup or a 9mm nut that has rusted away.

The joys of Citroen's and salted roads.

[CitroJim]

I've had the 'filmy screen' causing a big fogging problem a couple of times, most recently on Rattiva II. Gawd knows what was on there but it took industrial strength solvent to shift it

Since then things have been much better. It also helps that the heater works properly but that's another story...

Sadly, the corroded calipers are an all to common problem here. Basically, you need to get the calipers off, chisel off the corrosion and refit but the devil, as always, is in the detail.

The two through-bolts that secure the calipers to the trailing arm are high-tensile and love to snap. You need to exercise a special method of extraction as follows:

Wire brush the ends of the threads where they poke through the trailing arm and douse in Plus Gas (not WD40) Wait for it to soak in.

Use a 17mm socket on the end of a long breaker bar and use gentle but sustained force to just move the bolt. It will feel springy at first and this is the dangerous time. It's initially springy and then snap!

So what you must do is to only move the bolt a little each way initially. Undo just a tad, do up just a tad and repeat as you slowly undo and do up a little more each time. Don't rush the job and take it very carefully and slowly. And don't try to undo the bolts quickly just do it in very gentle stages.

The secret to having none shear on you is to have a set of spares on hand (Part No. 96 172 064 for the hatch) at a cost of £16.

If one snaps then the only way to see it out is to weld a nut on the stub of the thread poking out. It is far too hard to drill.

Once the calipers are off, remembering to replace the small 8mm through-bolt to hold the two halves of the caliper together, use a sharp cold chisel to remove the corrosion. Wire brushing or sandpapering won't touch it. Then reassemble with plenty of copper grease on the faces to stop it happening again for some time.

After that a new heater matrix is dead easy!