Mass culling at Renault. Thoughts?

[KP]

They will look more like this when they will hit the streets this year


But yes i wouldn't consider one if I;
a) couldn't charge up at work for a silly low price P/M
b) had the backup genset built in and not 5th gear smart car style....

[Citroenmad]

Do you really think electric cars are the way forward?

I certanily don't, they are not good for the environment in terms of energy used or recycling and manufacturing. They cost a fortune, something like £19K for a electric Citroen C1, when will you ever see that £10k over the range topping C1 price back? They do about 100 miles (if your lucky) before they need to be on charge for many hours, often somehting like 8 hours or more to be fully charged. If they do become a mass mode of transport then I really can't see the electric charging points at roadsides still being free.

That would not fit in with many peoples lifestyles, sure if you live in a large city and rarely venture out of it. Its a very limiting form of transport and you would no doubt need the use of a real car too, so what is the point.

Perhaps hydrogen is the future of motoring, though its a bit of a way off.

[Deanxm]

As a 'green' mode of transport no, they are a waste of time, but they recon you can do about 50miles on average, the volt above will only do 30 something though. But while you can charge for free and if you live far enough from work to save enough in fuel but close enough to make it to work i believe it could work out, ish. dont forget you get free road tax and if your a londoner you wont pay the congestion charge, on the island too i know owners of green cars like smarts (small petrol, ,electric and hybrids) park for free in any council run parking too so they can pull up in the high street for nothing.

The trouble is like all fuels what is the price difference in the extra you pay for the car to be able to save the money in petrol/diesel/tax as you point out?, its the same as petrol and diesel, you have to be doing big miles to make the derv pay which is fine, could the batteries allow you to make the same saving though.......................................... Like all green ideas from solar PV to hybrids, they make you look good to people who know nothing but in reality they dont work.

D

[DickieG]

The only place in the UK where I can a slight argument for having an electric vehicle is in central London as you get are exempt from the congestion charge and free road tax, elsewhere they're a very expensive luxury that makes you look like a complete tit! What isn't often taken into consideration is what happens after say 5 years when the batteries are knackered? IIRC the price of a set of batteries for an electric Berlingo was in excess of £10k, it'll be interesting to know how much Toyota charges for a set for a Prius.

The Met Police trialled a couple of Ford 'Think' cars in central London a few years ago but gave them back as pedestrians kept stepping into the road ahead of the cars, so it'd be interesting to find out what the pedestrian collision statistics are for electric vehicles, I think their claimed green credentials will take a bit of hit if trying to justify them as being green unless of course lowering the population is considered to be a green policy

[Deanxm]

well it would work i guess, may not be a popular idea though.

D

[Citroenmad]

A Citroen C1 can be bought new from as little as £6500, that is free road tax for the first year and £20 a year after that and the lowest insurance group. If driven carefully it can do 60+MPG and on petrol too, which is cheaper. They also hold their value very well. Apparently the C1 Trio is going to be made congestion charge free before long and so will be a bonus in London. That is the perfect City, or otherwise, commuter car, cheap to buy and run but without major failings. If you want to go somewhere you simply put in petrol, not plan the day before to ensure you have enough charge and then a hotel stop over if its more than the range of the car.

I very much doubt a electric car would work financially, how can you do big miles in an electric car to recoup the initial outlay. Its virtually impossible. Then the cost of replacement batteries would soon catch up with any savings made. Other than for someone trying to be 'green' I can't see why anyone would want one or think of one as a good idea.

We do need an alternative to petrol and diesel cars but that is not it, or not yet, they would need drastically improving.

[Deanxm]

Maybe we do need an alternative, but is that alternative going to be having smaller cars and not using them as much?

D

[Citroenmad]

Maybe we do need an alternative, but is that alternative going to be having smaller cars and not using them as much?

D

I hope not, not if they are powered by electric

I guess we are quite unwilling to give up our usefriendly cars in favour of small electric boxes with a very limited range. At least two days a week my commute is in excess of 100 miles a day, how would I do that in an electric car. I could use public transport but as I drive between a few places on those days it would be impractical and take far too long. The rest of the week is around 50 miles a day, with the ranges on some electric cars id be lucky to even get that far.

Then what about people in rural areas? When Ive been holidaying in Scotland ive often had to drive for 15-20 miles to find the nearest shop.

I wouldnt mind a smaller and more efficient car, so long as it would go where I wanted, as far as I wanted and when I wanted.

Electric cars are just not practical.
In many ways they are a backward step and I hope they don't catch on.

[Deanxm]

Well this is the trouble, we have only been using personal transport for a very short period and we have become used to travelling large distances as part of daily life, the big trouble now is we no longer have an extensive train network due to in the main the car, all of the public transport infrastructure is pretty much dead so now there is no going back but as energy production becomes more of a problem you can no longer afford everybody to be using energy at the rate we are, now im sure it wont come to this but in all honesty i believe the future is diesel, the grown type, much farmland is now unused for most of the time but even this has its problem, crop fuel needs a large amount of siunlight to raise the calorific value which rules out our country really, so what poor country is going to be producing all our fuel with all the drawbacks that will have for them?

The truth is nobody knows where the future will take us but as far as battery cars are concerned they need to have far better technology than we currently have and it must be much cleaner thaan it currently is to produce and dispose of these batteries.

D

[myglaren]

Diesel - of fuel of some description - from algae looks like being a viable prospect and along with other methods may satisfy demand for a while at least.
Hypothetically I would probably be a candidate for an e-car, travelling four miles to wok and six back home.
Never going to happen though.
The housing association I rent from uses a few Nissan Leafs and a lot of their vans are LPGd.
The local council is installing vehicle power points in all the local car parks that attend public buildings - Libraries, Council and Government offices, swimming pools/leisure centres etc.
In one car park that serves Houghton-Le-Spring (a miserable place if ever there was one) shopping centre, they closed the car park for a week to install two recharging points as there is a library in among the shops - £2,000! plus the lost revenue of course, and irate businesses with next to no customers.

The idea is reasonable enough but the practicalities and costs involved are something else altogether.

[KP]

For people like me though were the commute is say 10miles each way at 40mph stopping for various lights/junctions and i then work mosty a 12hr shift, sometimes 7hr i can get to work, plug in and start my shift and know i will have enough juice to get home. Then on longer journeys just use the built in genset to keep the thing going. Yes they can ber very bad for the enviroment depending on how they are produced but i firmly believe if we do not start to quickly get growing BioD in very large quantities ASAP we are going to be stuffed. Large ships and such forth could use it quite easily instead of normal diesel or heavy oil and cars don't take much if anything to convert to get them happy on it. IIRC at the minute 5% of all pump diesel is BioD anyway so upping that to say 20% would easily help bring down the cost and help relieve the strain on diesel supplies.

If they move these ERV's to diesel units instead of petrol like most have then it will help but they stick with petrol as it is much smoother when kicking in and out

I've even considered a bloomin electric scooter

For EV's to really take over the only way is to start covering parking spots with inductive loop charging systems and fit them to the cars, ie have them at traffic lights and on slips roads. lights because you can often spend a few minutes there and slips roads as an extra way to decrease drain during an acceleration cycle.

If solar cells get better like the tech news i've been reading suggests then having a roof covered in them wont be too far off and will enable some juice to flow back into the car

On board power generation is one of the best ways to move forward, loco's have done it for years now and some even use Gas Turbine engines are in some

I see Electric as being the next small step in the chain as the torque from motors is only getting better and thats what matters as most of a cars energy is used getting it upto speed and then very little for cruising (unless its a big old tank ) which is where they excel as peak torque comes in a 1rpm nearly all the way upto their rev limit and anywhere inbetween can have a tiny bit of power to just keep them ticking.

Then when you need to brake they recoup that energy instead of throwing it all away as heat and metal dust
and there will always be a loss in transmission thru the circuits and so on.

I just think its a little like ARCS, When citroen demo'd it and people laughed and said it would be too expensive to put in road cars and it would offer no real benefit they proved them wrong and im sure along the line it has saved plenty of lives through greater control in extreme conditions.
They were the first mass production company outside of the states, the first all steel car, the first mass produced front wheel drive and at the same time the first monocoque.....

Its just another step and while as a step its flawed and has its problems it will lead to something better and if it helps reduce our dependence on oil its all the better i say.

For the issues of growing BioD and Ethanol many plants are now being found to grow very fast and help create a decent amount of oil for the amount of energy put in, its just landspace... Which makes me think we have big deserts around the globe that are just unused and should be used.
Even things like Hempcrete interest me as it insulates and while not as perfect as normal concrete at least is more carbon nuetral which is the big thing at the minute and if you can regrow something surely its good

[KP]

I agree with you Steve, every problem will have more than one method to get to the same solution

[Citroenmad]

PSA are among the first to have hybrid diesels, the Peugeot 3008 and Citroen DS5 are both available in that spec. An excellent idea reall, as you have the economy of a diesel, boosted by the electric motor taking over at slow speeds and allowing the engine to stop and stay stopped while in crawling traffic. It also gives the car an almost four wheel drive system as the electric motor powers the rear wheels. All this in a space and family friendly car which is good looking and priced according to competition.

[CitroJim]

Bloody ugly too!

Understatement of the decade Steve. It's beyond ugly, it's painful to look at

I really do wonder what the designer was smoking when he/she penned that

[KP]

I think cars with looks are getting smaller in numbers as the years progress

Diesel and electric in a front/rear combo are the better way to go as the strong intial push off from a standing start/low speed can be done by the little torquey unit and the diesel for cruising where diesels are best, low engine engine speed and tiny throttle opening

I'd love to test the DS5 but i think without Hydro and the extra weight of all thats on board the ride will suffer