Xsara handling and general maintenance

[charentejohn]

Back trying to find my wife a car and now looking to a Xsara. This would be a good choice for me as I would then only have HDI engines to work on so making life a bit easier. The car would have to be an automatic, I have found a couple here in France so it is a possibility, as usual a minimum 3 hr drive to view so before I do that.....

Reason I ask about handling is that my wife's current (broken Merc A-class) car is bad on these country roads. Having driven my in Xantia for a few weeks then taking the A-class out for a short run I realised how compariatively bad it was. We were flung about over every dip and pothole. The Xantia does move but I would say about 10% of the A-class's movement.
So.... I know the Xsara has a conventional suspension but compared to the Xantia what is it like on rough roads ?

I have been looking up gearbox removal on a Xsara and it sounds easy, again compared with the A-class. A-class needs entire engine and subframe removing so loses all fluids and air con gas, also needs someone to know what they are doing. So best price I can find is 3000 Euros all in. If I bought a recon Xsara gearbox from the UK it would be 1300 Euros inc shipping, main point is though I could ask and local garage to swap it and I guess it would take a day at most. Could possibly do it myself if I felt like it.

Any thoughts anyone, mainly the ability to handle rough roads.

[rmunns]

bit confused. Do you have a Xsara in mind that has a knacked g'box? Or is gearbox changing a hobby? BTW, Xantia ride is brill. We are in rural France and the smaller roads are rough.

[charentejohn]

Mainly trying to find out about the ride quality on bad roads, so you have answered that I think. But any other comments welcome as I would like to be sure.

The A-class gearbox went and makes the car basically scrap, annoying as 1999 model with 38k miles and fsh. If a gearbox can be easily changed then no problem but this one can't, best I can do is have one filled at a cost of 500 Euros more than the repaired vehicle is worth. I have been trying to figure a way to get it repaired in France but no go.

So I have found a couple of Xsaras on Leboncoin that sound ok, I can buy a Xsara diesel auto with 120k miles for 3500 Euros, so 500 Euros more than a repair for the A-class.

I am now paranoid about buying another car like the Merc that needs drastic repair for a simple job. So I want to buy a car that any competent mechanic can fix just in case the box ever goes. No reason why an auto box shouldn't last the life of the car, unless it's an A-class with a known problem. I only worry that repairing the A-class and a year or more later the problem returns and that is 3k down the drain.

[Peter.N.]

If you want something with a good ride nothing I have found comes near the hydrophumatic Citroens. I have been investigating a replacement for my ageing XMs and so far haven't come up with one. I bought a 406 which is described as having a good ride but its dreadful compared with the XM, very nice car to drive though - on a smooth road. A friend is going to loan me an E class merc, they go rusty but if it has a suffuciently good ride I will excuse it that.

Peter

[rabenson]

Only thing to watch out for on the xsara is the cost of the Catalytic convertor in France. My wife was visiting friends in france in our 2L hdi 90 xsara when the cat failed (whole pipe fractured so not driveable without repair). Over here in the uk, a standard Bosal replacement would have been around 80 pounds but my wife got stung for around 600 pounds plus as I recall. This was about 3-4 years ago so things may have changed.....

[wotwot]

I think he would really like to know what the xsara rides like on rough roads,and assume the xantias are bit large for her lol.
I'm sure there must be a few xsara drivers on here will be able to enlighten you,its just they have'nt come out the woodwork yet.

[rabenson]

Xsara rides excellently on rough roads but still handles surprisingly well on twisty fast roads.

[charentejohn]

Thanks for all info, especially the ride quality ones which as noted were my main concern.

'er indoors does like larger cars but round here the roads can be single track so you have to move over next to the deep deep ditches. I see one car a year being towed out, so best to save that 20cm width as it might be the difference between being ok and ending up at 45 degrees in a ditch. Just a better bet round here.

French prices can be silly for some things (like auto box repair) but ok for others. No telling which is which but I do believe 5-600 Euro is the going rate for a cat, scary. Now I know UK is better I will research it a bit for future reference.

Merc E300 (and 190s) are very good, this was my other alternative to the Xantia, loads here but expensive and a lot of bad ones. They soak up the bumps really well, handling takes a bit of getting used to. I always felt that at speed I was 'careering' into corners but they are very precise for a big car. Like the Jag XJs, they are docile below 40mph but drive like a mini after that.

I am just getting used to the Xantia the same way, I keeep pushing it a bit further ever now and then. I keep thinking it is going to lean and then slide but so far so good....

[Citroenmad]

Xsaras do ride well for a medium sized, conventionally sprung car. They are set up for comfort rather than sporty driving. However, compared to a healthy Xantia they will be firmer but still a good ride.

Im not sure about auto boxes, hopefully you won't need to replace it as regular oil changes should prolong it.

The prices of cars are shocking in France, with the exchange rates they can be about double what they are here.

Peter, have you not tried a C5 estate yet? You are already impressed with the 2.0HDi 8v and the C5 does have a decent ride which can be made better. Mainly with the use of comfort spheres, though if you like ride over handling then this could be an option. Early 2.0HDis can be had cheaply and are surely worth a try? Yes they are multiplexed but that is not often a hassle and there are more than enough spares should it get a gremlin. They also dont rust, dont have iffy strut tops, spheres last an age, excellent on fuel and have all the advantages of hydropneumatic suspension.

I wouldn't touch a Merc, as much as I like them I HATE rust. I could not forgive a Merc for rusting, no matter how good the car is. I regularily see modern Mercedes with rust, I think the newest ive seen was a 2005 C class. There is a 2003 S-class round the corner from here, stunning looking car but its arches are well past their best. Its as if Merc uses melted down Ford Kas and FIestas as a source of their wodywork. It does not agree with our UK winters and the amount of salt we get thrown at us.

[Lighty]

Xsara ride quality is pretty good, nowhere near as smooth as a xantia, but also hughly better than a Merc A class, these must be one of the worst cars on a bumpy road ever with German stiff suspension and top heavy body configuration.
The ride quality on a Xsara probably leans more towards sporty than comfortable.Its a shame you are restricted to an Auto, as personally not a fan of the transverse Auto gearbox set up. They never seem to be wholly reliable in my experience.
Best of luck with the search.

[Peter.N.]

Citroenmad

I like the sound of the ride but there are a lot of other things I don't like, the interior and seats for a start, looks so cheap and nasty compared with the XM, then the reliability, looking at Parkers guide a very large percentage of people who have owned them said they wouldn't have another, compare that with the 406 review and most people said they would. I haven't tried one yet but a friend has one so I shall at least give it a chance.

Our neighbor bought a new E class and had to return it under guarantee for rust, yes I know they are bad but on the plus side they are rear wheel drive and so much easier to work on, they can also pretty well match the XM estate for load space and the 220 Cdi is very economical, better even than the 2.1 XM so its all really down to ride quality. I have been promised the loan of one soon so at least I can try before I buy.

What I would really like is a rust free Mk2 2.1 manual XM with a Bosch pump - but I don't think there are any.

Peter

[Citroenmad]

We have had 5 C5s and we have all found them to be great cars. Yes they can have a few issues but every car can have. They are comfrotable, I like the seats, but the basic versions to look a little cheap. However Im just as comfortable in them as I am in the XMs armchairs.

If you find a good one they are worth getting, I don't know what else I would buy which would do a similar job and that I would like as much.

A friend has a 2006 220 CDi C-class, it is by far the most noisy and uncomfortable saloon around. Another friend has a 270CDi E-class, its quieter but doesn't ride with the fluidity of a C5. They have had a number of E-class, a few had to go back for new doors under warranty for rust issues and every few years they were at the body shop to have the edges smartened. He drove our C5 estate and wondered why he spends so much money on buying and running Mercs (£1200 on suspension alone) when that was such a nice car, he was very impressed and always comments on the C5s comfort when he is in it.

Citroenmad

What I would really like is a rust free Mk2 2.1 manual XM with a Bosch pump - but I don't think there are any.

Peter

Really ... I can think of one, its about 20 metres from me now and has done only 64,000 miles

It sailed through its MOT on Thursday with no advisories. We have been wondering about selling it but whenever I use it Im reminded how very nice it is.

[Peter.N.]

Estate?

[Citroenmad]

Estate?

Of course, you know the one, 1995 2.1TD Manual VSX Estate with Bosch pump, 64,000 miles, full history, belts done, spheres regassed, etc.



We only covered 2500 miles in it in the last year, suprised we did that many really.

There are still very nice ones about, they just very rarely appear.

[Citroenmad]

Erm, maybe your ideal XM here Peter:

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C261662" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Series 2 2.1TD Manual estate in silver with Air Con and Bosch pump

Extremely rare, ive not see a 2.1 manual series 2 with air con before.