GERMAN electrical maladies

[RichardW]

Got to laugh... French cars are often derided for poor electrics, but I came across a good one yesterday. My Sister's got a Skoda Octavia with the 1.9 PD engine that has cold start troubles. Looking over the net this is not uncommon, and various things may be at fault - one of which may be the HEADLIGHT switch - apparently these develop a fault that interferes with starting if the lights are off, but switch the lights on and the engine will start If only everything in life was as reliable as a VAG car....we'd all be praying each time we went out to start it

[DickieG]

I'm not at all convinced by VAG vehicles, for me they play a game of spending money getting the gaps in the dashboard really small to give the impression of a quality build but don't deal with the basics of making their cars reliable. We had VR6 Golfs and Transporter vans at work for a year, normally vehicles are kept for three years but the VW's literally fell apart so were disposed of early.

[Northern_Mike]

I'm not at all convinced by VAG vehicles, for me they play a game of spending money getting the gaps in the dashboard really small to give the impression of a quality build but don't deal with the basics of making their cars reliable.

It seems that Ford, VW, and many other manufacturers suffer from the delusion with regards to their cars. The scenario, in my view, goes something like this.

Design brilliant car - Golf, or Focus for example.
Allow brilliant car to build good reputation and also become popular with fleet buyers (that's the problem!)
Facelift car with more toys and gadgets to keep fleet buyers and drivers impressed.
Forget about upgrading mechanicals and forget about driving dynamics.

End result - fat, overweight car that's not very nice to drive, a far cry from the original idea.

I recently had a 2011 plate Focus 1.6 petrol Zetex while mine was in for an insurance repair. Compared to my MK1 1.6 Petrol Zetec it was larger, heavier, less economical, the ride was *awful*, less comfy, less roomy inside despite being larger on the outside and was slower if you did rev the arse off it. Progress? I think not. OK, the stereo was better, but that was all.

[Cliohhh]

Design brilliant car - Golf, or Focus for example.
Allow brilliant car to build good reputation and also become popular with fleet buyers (that's the problem!)
Facelift car with more toys and gadgets to keep fleet buyers and drivers impressed.
Forget about upgrading mechanicals and forget about driving dynamics.

Spot on that Mike. I used to be really in to the old Golfs. The were exceptional little cars but nowadays they seem to come with more gadgets than the batmobile! A cousin of mine bought one recently and although the interior really is a design win he's already having all sorts of problems with it. You pay through the roof for all the mod cons too. Just give me a car that drives well!!

[Citroenmad]

A very good point, VWs are NO more reliable than any other car.

In fact, my family has had Citroens for years and years, back to when the DS was new! Problems have been few and far between, nothing really serious and no big failures.

We then got a few VW group cars from 2003 onwards, one needed an engine replacement under warranty at 18months old and the other had frequent problems with rust and a failed automatic gearbox which cost a small fortune. Never again! Hence our fleet is now 9 strong Citroens!

I did used to be into VW group cars, still am slightly, but the current cars are quite dull and boring, not really of interest anymore.

[myglaren]

My eldest had incessant and expensive problems with his Golf 1.8 GTi, dumped it for a big-bum Megane 1.9 DCi and thinks the world of it. Better put together, far more frugal and significantly faster and more comfortable.
He was reluctant, the choice was made by his girl friend and he is very pleased he bowed to her decision.

[Citroenmad]

My eldest had incessant and expensive problems with his Golf 1.8 GTi, dumped it for a big-bum Megane 1.9 DCi and thinks the world of it. Better put together, far more frugal and significantly faster and more comfortable.
He was reluctant, the choice was made by his girl friend and he is very pleased he bowed to her decision.

Some versions, if not all, of the Golf Mk4 GTi were utterly hopeless. If I remember correctly the 1.8 GTi could be had with a rather old 8v version with a supermini like 115bhp! Hardly a GTi!

Another thing I disliked about some VW group cars were the cambelt intervals. 4 years or 40K miles was the recommended intervals for the belts as some had gone earlier than the previous 6 years or 60K intervals. There was also a problem with water pumps, some would be lucky to last 40K miles as the impellars were plastic, this was upgraded on replacements to a metal version. Not to mention the various other problems on some of the range, manual gearbox failures, pedal box snapping etc.

Not much different from any other car maker, as all have their issues, but how they get their good reputation is a mystery to me. You generally have to pay more for a VW brand too, why?

To be fair they are not all bad, there is a 2002 Audi A4 TDi Quattro which has belonged to a close family member since new and its been very hardy and reliable. Until it got remapped last year and started falling to bits. It drives ok, very dull and underdamped but it proves its purpose as a car. There is also a 2000 Polo 1.4TDi belonging to the same person from new and that has been superb, again its a dull old drive, im not sure if the steering is connected to anything, but it goes and always does.

[myglaren]

His was the 180 BHP

[Timmo]

mother had a mk4 1.4 golf from 3 years old, ex motobility, 9k miles on it when she got it, she always used to rave about it but it Ate headlamp bulbs for aliving unless you spent Money on some, 2 months on a normal garage supplied bulb! i picked her up some philips ice bulbs from the factors one trip and they lasted a couple of years, but her local garage when one went changed them for cheapo's and back to the same, her waterpump went too sub 40k! she had countless exhausts, lord knows how many sensors for the exhausts too! seemed to need a new one every mot! she had a coupl eof starter motors etc. but in fairness, She beat the death out of it!! i swear it was probably the fastest 1.4 in existence!! how i dont know but she got the clutch to last 172k! that said, it wouldnt make it up our driveway in reverse!
she kept it to 184k and tratede it in on a Stupidly low miles 307 sw, we went to look at a golf the local place had but had sold it, she saw the pug and loved it, took it for a test drive and said she couldnt beleive how nice it was! made the golf feel so out dated, she's also been amazed by how much less fuel she uses being a diesel rather than petrol, in 2 months the fuel saving had covered the extra cost of insuance, she decided to drive it to scotland when they went up for a whiskey distillery tour from somerset and with the running around and the trip up and back she averaged 48mpg,
h, and she Loves the little Miles to go display, especially when it tells her when she's got to where she's going she's got more miles to go on the tank than when she started!

one of the old car cleaning forums i used was a Vag fanboi stylee place, and anything else was the wrong buy!! they all bought into the value of them being better etc. which i could never work out, i used the following example on them on one of the many Vag threads
if a golf cost £20k, compared to a mondeo/407 etc. at £18k for the same spec, milage, condition etc., 3 years in the golfs worth £10k and the others worth £8k, again, both same milage, condition etc.it doesnt make the golf Any better value, you pay more for it in the first place, it looses the Same amount of money over the same period as the other cars, the left over difference is purely the Extra you paid to have the badge! the difference is wether you stump up the premium cost for what you believe is a premium product.
all the answers i got were along the same lines of The golfs still worth more though so it must be better value!
seems if you buy into it you become a lil brainwashed!
every time we had them in the garage on px i have to admit i never saw the excitement in them, they'd get you were you needed too but didnt have any feel of excitment or passion in them, bit too clinical, compared to the Alfa's we used to get in, they were Such a pleasure to drive!! especially the 156 2.4td!!!
that said, nothing put a smile on my face Half as much as getting into the Bx at the end of the day!