Clatter, clatter, clatter
Moderator: RichardW
Clatter, clatter, clatter
Hi Guys & Girls
as the weather has been good here I've been using my bike and I've left the car to the girls to go out and about, had a complaint that the stop light had flickered up once or twice and I guessed the HLM had dropped a little when I went out to have a look started car pulled bonnet got out of car to go to the boot to get fluid and engine made a clatter - clatter - clatter sound and stopped, strange I thought, got HLM fluid and opened bonnet ready to top up fluid, looked around engine bay as you do and noticed some oil / diesel around the diesel bulb oh poo! I thought a diesel leak stuck finger in and it was oil not diesel, on checking found the air breather / intake pipe at the rear of the engine had worked off and was I guess throwing an oil mist out, without thinking got back into car (after cursing) and tried to start car so as to top up HLM, car was reluctent to start, strange, as it normally starts on the button, then it did sort of start clatter a lot and stop, sounded as if it was a bag of nuts and bolts, checked oil level "F§§§§§§§§ heck I thought no ummm oil (or words to that effect) that was late yesterday.
Today I've had time to think, what has happened?
Obviously lost oil due to breather pipe coming off but has engine seized? and what I heard was the big ends? or has it jumped a tooth on the timing belt? don't want to try and start car again and cause any more damage.
Your thoughts please as the girls are off on the 2nd of August for a weeks holiday, all booked so one way or another got to get transport sorted.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE
as the weather has been good here I've been using my bike and I've left the car to the girls to go out and about, had a complaint that the stop light had flickered up once or twice and I guessed the HLM had dropped a little when I went out to have a look started car pulled bonnet got out of car to go to the boot to get fluid and engine made a clatter - clatter - clatter sound and stopped, strange I thought, got HLM fluid and opened bonnet ready to top up fluid, looked around engine bay as you do and noticed some oil / diesel around the diesel bulb oh poo! I thought a diesel leak stuck finger in and it was oil not diesel, on checking found the air breather / intake pipe at the rear of the engine had worked off and was I guess throwing an oil mist out, without thinking got back into car (after cursing) and tried to start car so as to top up HLM, car was reluctent to start, strange, as it normally starts on the button, then it did sort of start clatter a lot and stop, sounded as if it was a bag of nuts and bolts, checked oil level "F§§§§§§§§ heck I thought no ummm oil (or words to that effect) that was late yesterday.
Today I've had time to think, what has happened?
Obviously lost oil due to breather pipe coming off but has engine seized? and what I heard was the big ends? or has it jumped a tooth on the timing belt? don't want to try and start car again and cause any more damage.
Your thoughts please as the girls are off on the 2nd of August for a weeks holiday, all booked so one way or another got to get transport sorted.
Help!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE
Last edited by fridgedoc on 18 Jul 2011, 11:48, edited 1 time in total.
Bonne Chance
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
- mongoose100
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Hey mongoose, I was thinking the same thing, nothing to loose really
well topped up oil, and just to get some oil around engine turned over before heater light went out, all OK, then heater on again light out and turned over, fired for a second or two very clattery and stopped, tried this a few times each time the same result, ran for a couple or three seconds clattering and stopped, the question is do I keep trying? or am I doing more damage or has the cam belt slipped a tooth? or is that pie in the sky?
well topped up oil, and just to get some oil around engine turned over before heater light went out, all OK, then heater on again light out and turned over, fired for a second or two very clattery and stopped, tried this a few times each time the same result, ran for a couple or three seconds clattering and stopped, the question is do I keep trying? or am I doing more damage or has the cam belt slipped a tooth? or is that pie in the sky?
Bonne Chance
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
- mongoose100
- Posts: 206
- Joined: 18 Nov 2010, 08:33
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I'd be at a loss as to why it might've jumped a tooth, hopefully someone else will have more knowledge than me on that one...
My guess is that she's run a bearing somewhere. I wouldn't keep trying to start it in her current state, a possible easy fix might just turn into something far worse
I'm assuming this is a Diesel? (Cant remember if you said or not )
My guess is that she's run a bearing somewhere. I wouldn't keep trying to start it in her current state, a possible easy fix might just turn into something far worse
I'm assuming this is a Diesel? (Cant remember if you said or not )
Regan.
2001 Citroën C5 V6
1994 Citroën Xantia 1.9TD
2001 Citroën C5 V6
1994 Citroën Xantia 1.9TD
- mongoose100
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Ummm, when you say pipe at the rear of the engine, do you mean the turbo pipe Stephen and was it right off? If so then...
That in itself would not account for the oil loss as this oil mist would be burned anyway but if indeed it is a turbo pipe and in coming right off it has exposed the turbo compressor then I suspect, sadly, that a foreign object has got into the turbo and wrecked it. This would account for the oil loss as the turbo bearings are likely to have gone and the clatter, clatter, clatter is possibly bits of dead turbo getting into the combustion chambers or causing such an air restriction that the engine is completely strangled.
I've seen a similar situation where a 1.9TD ingested a foreign object and the symptoms were much the same. It would start and run for a short time with much clatter. It was basically Armageddon inside the engine.
Sorry to be the bearer of possibly very bad tidings... I hope I'm wrong...
I'd begin by having both pipes off the turbo and inspecting the compressor wheel. It should be possible to easily spin it with your fingers with no play being detectable and there should be no visible damage on the blades.
Another possibility is that the oil may have contaminated the cambelt so an inspection and timing check is worthwhile if the compressor looks good.
That in itself would not account for the oil loss as this oil mist would be burned anyway but if indeed it is a turbo pipe and in coming right off it has exposed the turbo compressor then I suspect, sadly, that a foreign object has got into the turbo and wrecked it. This would account for the oil loss as the turbo bearings are likely to have gone and the clatter, clatter, clatter is possibly bits of dead turbo getting into the combustion chambers or causing such an air restriction that the engine is completely strangled.
I've seen a similar situation where a 1.9TD ingested a foreign object and the symptoms were much the same. It would start and run for a short time with much clatter. It was basically Armageddon inside the engine.
Sorry to be the bearer of possibly very bad tidings... I hope I'm wrong...
I'd begin by having both pipes off the turbo and inspecting the compressor wheel. It should be possible to easily spin it with your fingers with no play being detectable and there should be no visible damage on the blades.
Another possibility is that the oil may have contaminated the cambelt so an inspection and timing check is worthwhile if the compressor looks good.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
OK guys
It's a 1.9 TD
when your in the car hard to tell where clattering is coming from but to my finely tuned ear it's the top as it's a clatter rather than a clunk.
car turns over as normal not slow
Hi Jim
right, just to confirm, pipe that is off is inlet to turbo, so your idea that a foreign object (well I am in France may have entered is a possibility or because it was low on oil and I mean low, the turbo bearing has gone?
there is oil around the cam belt cover
and it's just started to rain........................Great!!!!!!!!!!!
next question is how do I get to the turbo to check it looks like the manifold has to come off, never done this before any pointers please don't want to spend time taking off bits I don't need to.
Malcolm it is the pipe that goes straight into the turbo
Thanks all
It's a 1.9 TD
when your in the car hard to tell where clattering is coming from but to my finely tuned ear it's the top as it's a clatter rather than a clunk.
car turns over as normal not slow
Hi Jim
right, just to confirm, pipe that is off is inlet to turbo, so your idea that a foreign object (well I am in France may have entered is a possibility or because it was low on oil and I mean low, the turbo bearing has gone?
there is oil around the cam belt cover
and it's just started to rain........................Great!!!!!!!!!!!
next question is how do I get to the turbo to check it looks like the manifold has to come off, never done this before any pointers please don't want to spend time taking off bits I don't need to.
Malcolm it is the pipe that goes straight into the turbo
Thanks all
Bonne Chance
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
- mongoose100
- Posts: 206
- Joined: 18 Nov 2010, 08:33
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Hi guys
All gone quiet.......
I did post:-
"next question is how do I get to the turbo to check it looks like the manifold has to come off, never done this before any pointers please don't want to spend time taking off bits I don't need to".
I have now taken the two large rubber hoses off, that is the top one and the one to the left looking from the front of the car, I can just get my fingers in on the l/h one and feel the blade which feels OK, it turns easy, cannot get enough purchase to spin it, all hoses where covered in oil, sorry that should read smothered, got my better half to turn car over this would be the first time I was under the bonnet when this was done and the clattering was definatly from the rocker box so I now feel that the cam belt has slipped a tooth or two, all I've got to do is find the post (s) regarding cam belt change/timeing as I have never done this before and I don't want to make silly mistakes
Thanks again for your input
All gone quiet.......
I did post:-
"next question is how do I get to the turbo to check it looks like the manifold has to come off, never done this before any pointers please don't want to spend time taking off bits I don't need to".
I have now taken the two large rubber hoses off, that is the top one and the one to the left looking from the front of the car, I can just get my fingers in on the l/h one and feel the blade which feels OK, it turns easy, cannot get enough purchase to spin it, all hoses where covered in oil, sorry that should read smothered, got my better half to turn car over this would be the first time I was under the bonnet when this was done and the clattering was definatly from the rocker box so I now feel that the cam belt has slipped a tooth or two, all I've got to do is find the post (s) regarding cam belt change/timeing as I have never done this before and I don't want to make silly mistakes
Thanks again for your input
Bonne Chance
Stephen
LHD Xantia 1994 (deceased)
LHD Xantia 1995 Berline
Stephen
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- CitroJim
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It should have. All but the smallest certainly.mongoose100 wrote:Jim, if the turbo has sucked in something and thrown its toys out the cot, what would the chance be that the intercooler has caught it before its had a chance to enter the engine?
I was just thinking of the consequences of that pipe being off and exposing the turbo to the open atmosphere... I was trying to come up with a scenario to explain it and came to that conclusion...
The turbo compressor can be viewed and touched by removing the pipe going into its side. It's a bit tight though...
Removing the turbo is quite a task on a 1.9TD but not impossible to do in-situ.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Stephen, an oil coating isn't too much to worry about IMO, assuming that is, its not very fresh?
My money lies with a bearing up top somewhere - is the clatter a deep thudding or a tinny type sound? Sorry for all the questions...
Ps, Jim or someone with similar knowledge - injection pump likely to get unhappy with lack of oil pressure???
My money lies with a bearing up top somewhere - is the clatter a deep thudding or a tinny type sound? Sorry for all the questions...
Ps, Jim or someone with similar knowledge - injection pump likely to get unhappy with lack of oil pressure???
Regan.
2001 Citroën C5 V6
1994 Citroën Xantia 1.9TD
2001 Citroën C5 V6
1994 Citroën Xantia 1.9TD
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if you do suspect the turbo, remove all the usual ducting and so on, jack under sump and remove offside engine mount, (this will help with any cambelt issues too) and prise engine forwards (I used a scissor jack) and then you have a lot more access to the back and the turbo.. once inlet manifold is ou fo way there is a fair bit of room back there
think you may want to remove exhaust downpipe before starting though.. a pain of a job
John
think you may want to remove exhaust downpipe before starting though.. a pain of a job
John