track day activa

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 06 May 2011, 21:03

Evening Gents

And no, no way would i put the effort into building an Activa into a Track car, there is no point, you will get spanked at every possible opotunity.
So far as i was aware Citroen uk advertised the Activa setup as a safety feature, not a performance car.
I dont like BMW's and i would not go out of my way to own one again in a massive rush but as a track car i would try and find something like a E28 M5 or E30 M3.

There are probably lots of people wondering if they are logged onto the FCF at this point so i will explain before Jim starts tieing the noose

The Activa Setup shines on the road, on your average B road the Activa will destroy a lowered car, and i dont care what it is, if the suspension is stiffened and lowered you are going to loose, or get bumped of the road by your track car setup and so long as you dont go putting energy savers or nang woo tyres on the Activa it will outcorner most road cars because it is two suspenion setups in one, it is very nearly a hydractive Xantia and its very nearly a lowered track car, and on your average bumpy road with strange camber and potholes that means it rules, end of.

Now the track, i said the Activa is very nearly a track car, well it nearly is but nearly leaves you a mile wide of the winnning spot and there are no pot holes/uneven race tracks, they are smooth and flat so you lower the suspension to reduce drag, lower the centre of gravity and stop body roll, squat and dive, the suspension is then the best it can be for the situation at hand, there is no need to be soft, so the Activa looses out.

The BMW choice of mine comes from the fun factor, you go to a track for a laugh in my view and there is nothing like wrestling a tail happy motor around a corner, the early Bm's are lighter and give a better base to start from, much less of a nancy boys car imo.

The Activa is awesome but on the track you dont need to compromise with suspension so a mildly hot activa then becomes a 200bhp 1500kg FWD car and its very easy to find something that can beat that!!

Did someone say rallying

D

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 06 May 2011, 21:18

Dean covered a lot of my opinions. Must be something about the amount of time we both spend looking at holes in the ground?

The best argument for not tracking an Activa, is how far the same money would go on using said car on the roads! Track cars cost money to build, more to compliance, require trailers and specialised insurance, then to mention the lost earning time taking it to more than the odd event if you're serious.

IMO, realistically there is a lot more gratification punting a car about the backroads - even taking the odd day from work midweek so they are quieter. At the end, you still have money left for the aforementioned crisps...

davoxx · Unread post by **davoxx** » 06 May 2011, 21:28

noooo!!!!! my dream ... okay maybe i should do a fast road/rally car

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 06 May 2011, 21:32

At the end, you still have money left for the aforementioned crisps...

Quote of the week there Adam

D

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 06 May 2011, 21:34

Stop dreaming and start living it!

I'm prescribing a recipe that realistically gets you out and about enjoying 98% of the same thrills, sooner and making the pesos reach further.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 06 May 2011, 21:43

Why not just get a bike where you can go very VERY fast both illegally as
well as the other options and can properly scare yourself with the raw power
and acceleration. I very modestly tried a bike in my younger days when I
thought I was indestructible/invincible and wimped out immediately as I
just knew I'd like it but more worryingly also see I'd kill myself very quickly!

I'm not saying go out on a bike and get yourself planted in the ground, just
for sheer raw performance, noise, adrenalin rush and viable finances (ok,
I'm not talking Busa here BTW) a bike will do what you're looking for.

Plus the remaining dwindling levels of Activae can rest more easily knowing
you wouldn't be hatching devious plans...

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 06 May 2011, 22:14

Very good comments, very few cars cover real roads like an Activa. Your also very true in what you say about lowered cars on the road Dean. One road I really like around here (its also a well known bikers road) suits the Citroens set up very nicely and very good progress can be made. My mate who runs two lowered VWs hates the same road and can only go at modest speeds.

If I was to buy a track day car id have something small, light and chuckable. Perhaps a Clio 182 Cup - excellent fun, small, light and handles well even as standard. Easy to live with running costs and also not that expensive to buy, that would make a good starter track day car.

If only I had money to burn on track days!

As it is, the Activa is a great road car, suspension almost without compromise.

Though I do fancy the idea of tacking mine on a track at one point, just to experience it. Think it will have to be done!

davoxx · Unread post by **davoxx** » 09 May 2011, 18:09

fine i want a fast road car, that will smoke a ferrai

yeah you're right the activa is best on the road, still does not mean that i can't try to give it 400+ hp ....

well it's not for a while yet before i get around to doing this .. a few more cars priority on my list ...

KP · Unread post by KP » 09 May 2011, 20:12

If you live in the republic then a sorted activa is the way to go... poor roads, camber changes... if its in real good fettle it will run rings round lots of back roads, specially those near the borders that aren't often monitored too heavily and will be a right hoot.

For track use im not sure an active would take well to being lowered a great amount though i believe there are polybush kits for them

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 09 May 2011, 22:46

Can we have a poll on crisps, for this one?

Koukku · Unread post by **Koukku** » 10 May 2011, 12:53

Interesting project if you happen to go for it! And definitely worth doing if you ask me

I've driven my V6 Activa on tracks quite a lot... here are some videos from one joyful track day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0k0rRjfSk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FzoeuCVb3w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvbYFWbU2QI

My car is pretty standard (brake cooling, stickier tyres, exhaust, about 15kg deleted), and to make it a true Porsche/BMW killer on the track it would IMO need the following mods:

- Supercharger
Here's a supercharged 406 V6 Coupe with ~400hp. Transmission, driveshafts and clutch are all standard (i.e. same as V6 Activa).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkeKjfIXYc

- Limited slip differential
On a race track there is no way to get even 200hp to the ground without one on an FWD car. There is no ready made LSD kit available for ML5T, but Quaife would make one for about 1000€ (although you'd have to order 10pcs...). Personally I'd swap in another ML5 variant for which an LSD is available, or maybe even six speed ML6.

- Better/bigger brakes
There are no proper racing pads available for Xantia calibers. Ferodo Premiers are the best suited pads for track use that I've found so far. But with standard V6 288mm discs it's possible to fit Brembo calibers from a 406 V6 Coupe. Bigger 406 V6 discs should fit too, but caliber mounts need to be modified. Bigger rear brakes (if needed) can be sourced from a Xantia estate.

And LHM can easily take the heat without boiling, so no problems there.

I'm also thinking whether it's possible to make the suspension to stay in hard mode for track use (hydractive fuse?). That way you could lower the suspension (or make a lower track setting to the lever) without the fear of bottoming out. And drive back home in comfort

For tyres I'd recommend Hankook R-S2, if you don't want to go for semislicks that is. Lots of grip, and they can take a lot of spirited track driving.

If you're a facebook user, and take a look at the pictures in the Xantia Activa group, you'll find an Activa with a rather stripped interior. Apparently it has lost 240kg of weight. I guess that is about as light as you can go (with glass windows and metal body parts).

BTW, here's Jeth's blog on his TCT that ended up with 266hp before a slight engine failure occured...
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=30210

And here I'm going head to head with him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcW126WW6Lc

Jeth · Unread post by **Jeth** » 10 May 2011, 15:32

You can get it to "hard" mode by disabling front ( or rear? ) hydractive solenoid. Mine is broken and it's always hard, so i changed softer spheres.. thats why it's rear is on the ground in acceleration

Engine would've taken that power, i just got a little greedy with spark maps and boost...

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 10 May 2011, 16:01

Just wire in a dash switch to the hydractive fuse and it'd give you the option of switching between hydractive 1 (like early XMs) and hydractive 2

davoxx · Unread post by **davoxx** » 10 May 2011, 16:37

Koukku wrote: - Supercharger
Here's a supercharged 406 V6 Coupe with ~400hp. Transmission, driveshafts and clutch are all standard (i.e. same as V6 Activa).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGkeKjfIXYc

I don't have an V6

so i'm limited to the 2.0tct gear - and i doubt there is enough space to slap on a supercharger to an tct.

Koukku wrote: - Limited slip differential
On a race track there is no way to get even 200hp to the ground without one on an FWD car. There is no ready made LSD kit available for ML5T, but Quaife would make one for about 1000€ (although you'd have to order 10pcs...). Personally I'd swap in another ML5 variant for which an LSD is available, or maybe even six speed ML6.

Seriously interested in these - 1k is steep - but if we could get enough people involved, i would love an lsd ...
Which cars were the ML6 on? and are they a straight bolt on for the M5LT?

Koukku wrote: - Better/bigger brakes
There are no proper racing pads available for Xantia calibers. Ferodo Premiers are the best suited pads for track use that I've found so far. But with standard V6 288mm discs it's possible to fit Brembo calibers from a 406 V6 Coupe. Bigger 406 V6 discs should fit too, but caliber mounts need to be modified. Bigger rear brakes (if needed) can be sourced from a Xantia estate.

And LHM can easily take the heat without boiling, so no problems there.

i don't think any normal calipers can take LHM, as far as i remember LHM will destroy the seals?

Koukku wrote:
BTW, here's Jeth's blog on his TCT that ended up with 266hp before a slight engine failure occured...
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=30210

http://www.hiflowheads.co.uk/performance/2l8vt-kit.pdf

they do nice kits for upgrading activas!!! 210hp for 1.5k .... though i'm looking for 400 >:)

Koukku · Unread post by **Koukku** » 11 May 2011, 07:27

davoxx wrote: I don't have an V6 so i'm limited to the 2.0tct gear - and i doubt there is enough space to slap on a supercharger to an tct.

There's plenty of room when compared to the V6... the 406 had a procharger right about where the hydraulic pump is on Xantia V6. But supercharger isn't really a good option for TCT... how about NOS?

Or get an LHD V6

Seriously interested in these - 1k is steep - but if we could get enough people involved, i would love an lsd ...
Which cars were the ML6 on? and are they a straight bolt on for the M5LT?

You can count me in on the lsd order

ML6 was used atleast in C5 and 407 with ES9J4S V6 engines. AFAIK ML5T was used with ES9J4S too at some point, so it should be bolt on... dunno how much bigger it is though, and driveshafts are probably different. Here's one for sale on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-GENUINE-PEUGE ... 0529925996

i don't think any normal calipers can take LHM, as far as i remember LHM will destroy the seals?

I've heard that rumour too... has anyone ever tested this? If it is true, the seals need to be replaced with something LHM proof. By replacing the front calibers you would of course lose the handbrake, but 406 has rear calibers with handbrake... (dunno if they're bolt on though)