C5 spare wheel problem.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 30 Mar 2011, 17:44

I discovered that when I got to work this morning that I had a flat tyre. Anybody's guess when it lost it's air but as the screw in the tyre was from work I would guess during the night.

Not a problem - other that the cost of replacing an almost new tyre. Just pop that wheel off and bung the spare (never used) on.

All went as well as could be expected until the spare was on and I discovered that the wheel wouldn't rotate. Not stiff or catching, as they are renowned for when the caliper gets a bit corroded. Absolutely solid and immovable. It was jammed hard up against the caliper!

Compared to the standard wheel it is quite shallow, just no clearance at all.

Had to clock out and borrow a mate's car, whip the wheel round to Tyrespot and get it checked and repaired - fortunately there was no damage to the walls of the tyre so it must have been very soft before I stopped - was definitely very flat at lunchtime when I removed it - leaving the car blocking one of the factory units

So much for a ten minute tyre change.

The problem of course is that supplying a spare wheel that cannot be used is criminally insane and a waste of fuel dragging the weight around.

I am confident that it is not a substitution - the wheel fit precisely into the foamed plastic holder and the tools were unused - fairly remarkable in a vehicle this age. Fairly remarkable that in five years of ownership I haven't previously removed a wheel

OK, I did drop a front wheel off to replace the arch liner but that doesn't count.

Will be making enquiries at the local Citroen dealer over the next few days.

I was quite miffed at not having an axle stand to be able to baffle and amaze the onlookers at the Citroen Hydraulic method of wheel removing obviating the need for a jack.

Needless to say that supplying a wheel that doesn't fit hasn't helped in selling any C5s.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Mar 2011, 18:05

Thats not right Steve, your wheel should fit. Ive had the 15" steel on our SX C5 and it fits fine.

I guess it was a rear tyre with the puncture?

It is true that the steel wheels sit closer to the caliper than the alloys do, hence people with corroded calipers often experience problems earlier with steel wheels.

It does sound as if your calipers have moved, have you checked how the rear pads are wearing?

Unless, of course, your steel wheel is somehow a 14" one .... the 15" as supplied on SX trim levels will fit the front and rear of the car. You cars brakes differ in no way to the C5 LX which had the same steel wheels as the spare fitted as standard as road wheels.

Id be looking at the rear brakes before contacting the Citroen dealer.

The axle stand trick is a good one. Though im a little disappointed that the C5 can not be driven with one missing rear wheel!

wheeler · Unread post by **wheeler** » 30 Mar 2011, 19:24

Although I dont belive its the case with the C5 there are some manufacturers that have space saver spare wheels that only fit on one axle (usually the rear), one of them was a Volvo (cant remember the model) & the other was an older Honda Civic. Pretty useless without some king of axle stand.
Think yourself lucky you even have a spare wheel. It seems to be the norm now that a spare wheel on a new car is an optional extra, thats if there is room provided for one. They now just come with a (99% of the time) useless liqud or foam repair kit.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Mar 2011, 19:35

Yes, that is true actually, however the C5 has full size steel wheels as spares. There should be no problem fitting them to front or rear axles, something is amiss with the brake.

I dont think the tyre weld in a can is a very good solution at all, its a very poor idea and as you say, its often useless.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 30 Mar 2011, 19:41

Chris, the calipers were removed and refurbished a couple of years ago, before they needed it - had it dome before I encountered any problems. There were the beginnings of a little corrosion there but a negligible amount. Also the rear discs and pads were renewed last year and the calipers again checked and greased on the mating surfaces.

I was only able to give them a cursory check today and they looked fine but will have the wheel off again at the weekend for a thorough investigation.

I wondered if there should be a spacer supplied, as with some Fiats. It would be a right pain fitting one as they are bolts rather than studs & nuts.

Looking at the two side by side there is a considerable difference in the space available to clear the caliper.

The spare is an alloy, painted black to look like steel, as has been mentioned before.
I did check this with a magnet a while back, as with the bonnet. It was completely unmarked when I dragged it out from it's hidey hole.

Wheeler - there is a guy at work with a Nastra Tintop that had a similar puncture and found no jack or spare, only a cannister of expanding foam or somesuch. He did as I did, used my car to get his tyre repaired.

No spare is as good as a spare you can't fit though.

Definitely sending for a pair of axle stands now. Kicking myself for giving mine away.

I borrowed a Puma 1.7 to visit TyreSpot. Interesting

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Mar 2011, 19:55

Ive heard about C5 'steels' being alloy wheels, however ive not noticed this myself. Im going to have to go and dig the spare out of the SX C5 and have a look. When I had it fitted it just looked like a normal steel wheel, I didn't take too much notice, but it fitted fine.

Was the wheel catching the caliper all the way around the caliper or on the top or bottom of it?

Something is not quite right here, there is no way a car would be supplied with a wheel which doesnt fit, especially on the back where the brakes are smaller.

A 1.7 Puma hey, what did you think? Ive had a drive of one of those, I liked it a lot!

wright · Unread post by **wright** » 30 Mar 2011, 20:07

mine is on standard wheels but they are not steel, some sort of alloy, really light, I'll be swapping them for steel ones from a peugeot soon, they are all buckled to some extent, it happens when they see a pot hole,

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 30 Mar 2011, 20:09

Do they look like steel wheels (black with the usual assortment of holes etc) or do they look like black alloys?

I thought alloy wheels were thicker in construction, steels are thin in comparison.

I have some 16" Citroen steels, they are definitely steels but look identical to the 15" spare in the boot of the C5 SX.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 30 Mar 2011, 20:18

I didn't check the wheel diameter but the calipers appeared to be fine, will measure it tomorrow.

Also, yes, it was a rear wheel.

Not sure exactly where it was catching - the important bit then was that the wheel was stuck fast and so the car couldn't be moved from where I had dumped it for ten minutes

to swap the wheels. Had to shift it to allow access to the fork lift trucks.

As far as I could see the only thing it could jam on was the caliper. There were no scuff marks on either wheel or caliper as the wheel wouldn't rotate.

Famous ten minute job

Did one yesterday that took four hours.

The Puma was interesting. A bit rattly and squeaky, very bumpy but lots and lots of go to it.

The kind of thing my youngest daughter would like if it wasn't so small.
I have been out in it before and mentioned it to her - it is in reasonable condition except for needing a rear wheel bearing and he is selling it but she prefers the SAAB, which is just as quick but more comfortable.
He has a 2.8L V6 Capri, also coming up for sale, as well as an XR3 racer, several mini's, one done up for racing with lots of stuff done to it like magic pistons, crankshaft, camshaft etc.
He wants big Transit

wright · Unread post by **wright** » 30 Mar 2011, 20:57

Citroenmad wrote:Do they look like steel wheels (black with the usual assortment of holes etc) or do they look like black alloys?

I thought alloy wheels were thicker in construction, steels are thin in comparison.

I have some 16" Citroën steels, they are definitely steels but look identical to the 15" spare in the boot of the C5 SX.

they do look like steels and are 15", and impossible to balance properly with them being square at spots

Unread post by **myglaren** » 09 Apr 2011, 18:58

Finally got round to examining it and it is primarily the profile of the inside of the spare - the standard wheel has an almost straight drop from the rim to the 'spokey bit'
The spare has a lot of mouldings - shoulders for want of a better term.
Took some photo's that may help.
It is also 15mm shallower where it counts too.
They are 15" wheels though.

Plus the caliper IS out of true - only very slightly and shouldn't be enough to be a problem, there is insufficient tolerance in the spare.

I took a pad from the caliper and it was very slightly wedge shaped but hardly discernible.
On the other hand, the bolt that holds the pads has been put in from the back while the calipers were off and can't be retracted sufficiently to allow removal of the inner pad

Pads are barely worn fortunately but the calipers will have to come off to have the corrosion removed.
Bolts are as tight as can be - couldn't move them. Lack of a 16mm socket isn't helping either.

I did try the axle-stand-no-jack trick - had to use my trolley jack as an axle stand but still.
Suspension high, shove jack in place, suspension low, off with the wheel. Dead easy - my grandson's were impressed. They were cleaning Bob's 306.
He came in from work rather noisily this morning- exhaust fell off at the bottom of the street. He's going to Scotland tomorrow so needed it sorting today.
He's been trying to sleep all day - without success, while I put a new exhaust on for him.
As my hands were dirty it was a good excuse to investigate my problems, too late for my trip to Teesside anyway.

nick · Unread post by **nick** » 09 Apr 2011, 21:03

wheeler wrote:Think yourself lucky you even have a spare wheel. It seems to be the norm now that a spare wheel on a new car is an optional extra, thats if there is room provided for one. They now just come with a (99% of the time) useless liqud or foam repair kit.

I'm an auditor for a chain of car dealers (amongst others) for my sins and happened to be looking through a box of new car orders recently. It was noticeable that police, fire service, NHS etc, and some of the larger leasing companies nearly always specified the optional spare wheel & jack kit when ordering a new car.

Conversely the private buyers almost never did, either presumably because they didn't know it was optional, or perhaps just didn't care and wanted to save 40-odd quid on the cost of a £20k+ car ! Its going to be a real pain in a few years when these cars filter onto the used market. Its around £40 to specify the wheel and jack when buying new, but £150-200 to buy them as spares from a dealer at a later date.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 09 Apr 2011, 22:17

The other thing manufacturers now fit instead of a spare is those horrid run flat tyres which weigh a ton, have solid sidewalls so cause a stiff ride with the propensity to bunny hop when running over a bump mid corner and best of all they only last a distance of up to 50 miles if you're 'lucky', oh and they cannot be repaired but replaced at great expense. Now they are a thing to avoid when buying a car.

nick · Unread post by **nick** » 09 Apr 2011, 23:24

There was someone on another forum recently complaining that his neighbour boasted he never checked his tyres as "BMW tyres don't lose pressure". After being persuaded to check them he found they all had less than half the recommended pressure in.

He had been under the impression that run-flat tyres were somehow sealed for life and never needed air in them . . . .

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 09 Apr 2011, 23:29

We will be getting solid rubber tyres at this rate!

Someone i know had their tyres inflated with nitrogen, they were told they dont lose pressure so didnt check them in the 6 months since getting them done. They were all down a good 10PSI!

Tyre pressure sensors or not, a manual check of tyre condition and pressure should be done regularly.

Steve, could you post up the pictures you have taken of your findings? It does sound very odd ...