False economy?

C.J. · Unread post by **C.J.** » 12 Mar 2011, 11:06

Literally driving myself 'round the bend trying to find an economical vehicle to use for work. Estate preferably or van.
Obviously, my affection for the chevron clad marque is my first choice for such useage, but on researching the all important fuel consumption figures, I'm actually wondering if a far less economical XUD TD Xantia for instance, which averages out at approx 40mpg combined, is a better bet than a 2.0 Hdi that averages out around the 50 mark.
What I'd save on bio and veggie useage on an older TD would surely be wiped out by the 20% better fuel consumption of an Hdi, or am I actually missing a point or two here?

rory_perrett · Unread post by **rory_perrett** » 12 Mar 2011, 12:35

No you are not missing the point - depends on a great many variables, mileage, type of driving etc. However having had a 1.9td, 2.1td and now an HDi Xantia hatch the average MPG figures I got are 45, 47 and 53 mpg respectively. For the same cost per mile for fuel if diesel is £1.40 per litre for the HDi I would have to be fueling the 2.1td at £1.24 per litre and the 1.9td at £1.19 per litre.

The HDi is considered more expensive to fix but for me, in 3 years, has proved not to be any less reliable than the others.

rmunns · Unread post by **rmunns** » 12 Mar 2011, 13:46

Mine is a year2000 Hdi90. Average fuel consumption over 24000 miles / 20 months is 51mpg. NO engine problems at all. I just put Redex cleaner stuff in every 5 tanks or so.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 12 Mar 2011, 14:54

Until recently I have strongly resisted getting an Hdi because of the complication and likely problems but when I started looking at them in detail I came to the conclusion that the early 2.0 Hdi was quite good, I noticed particularly that there were quite a number for sale with over 300,000 miles on them, that went a long way in actually making me bite the bullet.

The Xantias and 406 dont have the DMF rubbish either so one considerable potential trouble removed, they don't have coded injectors or FAP either, so as far as I'm concerned about the best Hdi you can get.

The 2.1XM's are pretty good on fuel, averaging around 40 mpg with 50+ easily attainable on a run, the Hdi is averaging nearly 50mpg with 60+ on a run.

I would really have liked a Xantia for the ride particularly but I bought the 406 in the interests of repairing, they are generally quite a bit easier to work on the the Xantia - and I still have an XM - best of both worlds

The 406 estate is surprisingly large for what I regard as a small car (in comparison with the XM) last week I fitted a dishwasher lengthways in the
back without putiing the seat down.

I don't care much for the ride after the XM although its a nice car to drive, but I tend to use it quite a lot in the interests of economy.

Peter

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 12 Mar 2011, 15:25

Depends on how much you can get veggie oil for really.
My source delivers WVO for 50p a litre, using a high oil to diesel ratio you can get away with something like 80p per litre of fuel. In the summer XUDs can run 100% without much fuss

So even with the slightly decreased economy and being a bit less efficient than an HDi, it's probably still cheaper to run an XUD on chip fat than spending £1.40 a litre (and rising) on diesel in an HDi.

Although you won't have the extra 20 horsies to play with and you've got to put up with the nice smell you trail around

-Alex

C.J. · Unread post by **C.J.** » 12 Mar 2011, 18:46

Chlorate wrote:Depends on how much you can get veggie oil for really.
My source delivers WVO for 50p a litre, using a high oil to diesel ratio you can get away with something like 80p per litre of fuel. In the summer XUDs can run 100% without much fuss
So even with the slightly decreased economy and being a bit less efficient than an HDi, it's probably still cheaper to run an XUD on chip fat than spending £1.40 a litre (and rising) on diesel in an HDi.

Although you won't have the extra 20 horsies to play with and you've got to put up with the nice smell you trail around

-Alex

Heard far too many horror stories about both dubious bio and wvo too.
Used some local bio in my Skoda 3 years ago, and it started coughing and spluttering. Qick fuel filter change revealed bits of greenery in the old one!

Needless to say, I never used it again., and the garage concerned has stopped selling it now too.

Sometimes saw it being delivered from a very large plastic container fitted into the back of an extremelly weary and down on its springs Tranny.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 12 Mar 2011, 19:28

Peter.N. wrote: The Xantias and 406 dont have the DMF rubbish either so one considerable potential trouble removed

Peter

Indeed, however if you do buy something with the 2.0HDi engine and a DMF (C5 for example) then there is the option to fit a solid flywheel and clutch instead of replacing the DMF.

Our 110 C5 has had a solid flywheel fitted for more milres than its original DMF lasted, it drives great with the solid one.

wright · Unread post by **wright** » 12 Mar 2011, 21:09

i did the clutch on my c5 110 hdi last week, 160k on the origional clutch and flywheel was fine so thats still on it

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 12 Mar 2011, 21:29

Even SVO at 100ppl is cheaper to run than a HDI at 140ppl

14 gal tank, with the TD giving 45mpg (I don't get any drop from using veg), and HDI giving 50mpg the ranges and costs are:

TD
643.5 miles
£65

HDI
715 miles
£91

To match the range of a HDI, the TD would need an extra £7.22 of veg.
That's still £18.78 per tank cheaper than running the HDI.

As long as SVO is below 126ppl, then it'd be cheaper to run the TD

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 12 Mar 2011, 21:37

wright wrote:i did the clutch on my c5 110 hdi last week, 160k on the origional clutch and flywheel was fine so thats still on it

Yes, they are not all bad these DMFs