C5 Wot do I do with it?

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 14 Jan 2011, 20:15

Well as some will know I have had an interesting time tracking down some of the obscure problems which infect these vehicles.

Anyway today was MOT day took it into my local MOT garage.When I returned to pick it up found a couple of mechanics standing around scratching their heads. First question has it passed? oh yes says they but the suspension won't come up.
Quickly became apparent that the pump wasn't running, a quick examination showed a blown Maxi fuse. Changed the fuse still nothing.......
Well they said we will put an analyser on it, well says I leave it I'll look at it tomorrow I'm sure that a Lexia will tell me more and let me do more than a generic code reader. They seemed to see this as a bit of a challenge and insisted in producing what they claimed to be the bees knees, I felt that it would be interesting to see what they had got and how well it worked. In short I have to say I was quite impressed the menu's were very Lexia like and much to my surprise it would actually allow driving bits of the hardware as you can do with a Lexia, it's diagnosis was accurate too..........the pump motor is open circuit.... I somehow suspect that the Lexia is going to tell me the same tomorrow..

So here we have a 2001 C5 Exclusive with all the toys set of brand new Kuhmo's MOT for one year part ex value of what £900.00? a years tax and a U/S pump which will cost circa £800.00 from Cit plus labour plus car hire while it gets fixed (either by me or a garage).. One could almost believe that it has heard the conversations that one has had about a replacement.

Decisions decisions! would be nice to have a spare pump to take apart before tackling the one in the car.

cachaciero

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 14 Jan 2011, 21:11

Im sure you can source a second hand pump from somewhere cheaply, much cheaper than that.

Its not a hugely common failing, given the number of C5s around, so you shouldn't have problems getting a good used pump.

At least its passed its MOT!

Unread post by **quintet** » 14 Jan 2011, 21:28

Just a bit of a curious stab in the dark here but isn't the pump's ECU mounted underneath the pump? these are quite reliable but as I'm sure your well aware rather expensive when they go 'boobs' up!!! Before spending any serious money I'd be getting it on a Lexia or even trying the good ole faithful re-boot, if all the MOT testers done was a straight forward MOT maybe they jacked it up in 'normal' suspension mode & this confused the BSI OR maybe even the height correctors popped off their actuators, with this sort of money involved I'd be looking at all the options before spending big money, having said that it's not great that the maxi fuse was blown.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 14 Jan 2011, 21:36

I never EVER ever want a C5 but am quite curious about this failure, anyhow.

What is the deal with this pump then; is it the same set up and the Xantia or
an additional hydraulic pump to the brakes as I seem to recall there's been a
fragmenting of the original system as it it get's more Peutroned? There seem
to be hydraulic pumps available from (reasonable money up to around £150
for a differing looking pump) on ebay...

Andrew

Unread post by **myglaren** » 14 Jan 2011, 22:13

The steering and suspension share the same fluid in a reservoir above the electric suspension pump.
The steering has a separate engine driven pump.
The brakes are a completely separate and 'conventional' system using DOT4 and a vacuum brake assist

They aren't real Citroens at all. Just Peugeots with squishy bits.

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 14 Jan 2011, 22:17

are all C5's fakes then? sounds very complicated to me

D

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 14 Jan 2011, 22:26

This one is a bit cheaper.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Citroen-C5-2000-2 ... 27b7d1b63a

Pleiades · Unread post by **Pleiades** » 14 Jan 2011, 23:20

Funny things these C5's

We had one in yesterday with the very same problem.

The story goes... Customer has a C5 and the battery went flat, not needing the car he left it for a while and it sunk down, he bought and fitted a new battery, started the car and a point blank refusal to lift.

He then dumped the car off with me at lunchtime and said, please take a look but dont spend any money.

Well we looked at it and left the engine running, sure enough no lift, we wiggled the steering lock to lock a few times (belive me this has been known to work) Then we tried the 0.5 bar pressure in the tank, still no lift. He then turned up and said that he would take the car home and think about it for a while.

Next day he rings me and said that he went out and started the car and it lifted up and now all seems fine, the car goes through it's heights and when he gets in the boot, it corrects the height.

Now I dont realy know what the answer to your dilema is but just keep trying, these C5's can be a bitch when the pressure is lost, I now this from chats with customers, but they seem to fix themselves.

Regards
Martin.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 15 Jan 2011, 08:07

myglaren wrote: They aren't real Citroëns at all. Just Peugeots with squishy bits.

I wouldnt say that ....

So not everything is driven by the hydraulics, but what is wrong with that?

Its for safety and simplicity more than anything. Which is a bonus really as as far as i can make out, very little in feel has changed compared to Citroens with all hydraulics. The steering is good, no more communicative or dead feeling than a Xantia or Xm.

The brakes, while they have a conventional feeling brake pedal (because they are conventional) the breakes are superb, lots of feel and quite sensitive, but not overly so.

The electric suspension pump is great, the fact it can lift and lower the car in just a few seconds is a bonus, beats waiting for the thing to build up pressure in my opinion. The pump reacts quickly to added weight and on a morning when you unlock the car it restores its height.

I wouldnt say its not a true Citroen, in my mind it is, id just say it was progress, as for me, nothing has been lost by having conventional steering and brakes on the C5. I'd say was actually an excellent replacement to the Xantia, possible Xm too, for the Citroen range back in 2001.

C5s suspension system on the whole is much more simple and there are less pipework and things to go wrong or need maintenance. Whats is there will be very samiliar to people who know their Xantias. Alebit with an electric pump and ECU.

dnsey · Unread post by **dnsey** » 15 Jan 2011, 09:02

If necessary, these people can recon your pump:
http://www.bba-reman.com/content.aspx?c ... Suspension

I believe that Martin (Pleiades) was looking into the C5 pumps a while ago, too, and might be able to help.

I've noticed quite a few C5s offered for sale which won't lift - usually there's no mention of leaks, etc. I wonder if this is a more common problem than it at first seems?

XantiaDaveEire · Unread post by **XantiaDaveEire** » 15 Jan 2011, 09:50

andmcit wrote:I never EVER ever want a C5 but am quite curious about this failure, anyhow.

Andrew

Strong words Andrew

Does the C5s styling not appeal to you then

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 15 Jan 2011, 10:00

I'll spare Andrew from getting worked up enough to make the point:

"C5 Styling" is an oxymoron.

reblack68 · Unread post by **reblack68** » 15 Jan 2011, 10:10

I quite like the looks of the C5. The estate is very nicely proportioned for a modern car, and has a proper square back instead of the fashionable but useless swoopy back.

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 15 Jan 2011, 10:36

Could it be carbon brushes in the motor that have worn down? These might be available in a repair kit from the main dealer or aftermarket. Whenever motors give trouble I always check the brushes first. Worn brushes which are too short to make contact might make the motor appear open circuit. Brushes which are worn down will also give intermittent operation. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It's because the brushes are only just making contact.

I don't know anything about the C5 or hydraulic pumps. This is just an observation about motors in general.

Paul

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 15 Jan 2011, 11:07

The MOT people probably had the car up the hoist with wheels hanging and engine running.
The pump will have worked overtime and tossed it.

Read a story on a French forum of the pump motor winding corroding at a terminal.
They repair by unwinding one single turn to re-terminate.
That still doesn’t blow the maxi-fuse.

The hydraulic pipes are very thin on the C5.
If there’s air in them, the tank needs external priming pressure as per Martin’s post.

What’s that fixation they have with complicated MOTs there anyway ?

We get by without MOTs here, and the sun always rises the next day.