Xantia - Upgrading intermittent wipe to variable delay

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 30 Jul 2010, 18:22

The one glaring omission from my Xantia's SX spec. is the lack of variable intermittent wipe.

I've noticed that the P plate VSX (that I'm using as a donor to repair the SX), has variable intermittent wipe.

I'm guessing someone must have at least tried such a transplant?

Does anyone know what the differences are, apart from the rheostat(?) built into the stalk, please?

Is it too much to hope that the transplant involves nothing more complicated than changing the stalk and perhaps the intermittent delay unit?

I want at some stage to take the steering wheel off in order to (hopefully) repair its non-function buttons and check the indicator stalk - at the same time I intend to disable the out-dated air-bag - so changing the wiper stalk at the same time would be easy?

YES, I do know to be VERY CAREFUL when disconnecting the AIRBAG and to connect the two trigger wires together to guard against E.S.D. and NO I'm not putting it into a main stealer to have the airbag replaced (by one that's been in store for years!)

Guy

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 30 Jul 2010, 23:44

At the risk of sounding very casual, airbags are fairly safe provided you don't do anything silly. They're removed/refitted all the time by panelbeating assistants... The main sensible thing to do, is keeping your head out the firing line!

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 31 Jul 2010, 08:50

You been listening too much to the Haynes Howlers!!

They arent really that senstive I dont think..

OldGuy, prehaps a study of wireing diagrams may help, if you can get hold of the "Ordinary" diagram, and the "Inermittent" diagram...

Im tempeted to go one step further, and add Auto wipers, this is also a firly easy install, IIRC when I broke the S2 SX which had it fitted..

Paul

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 31 Jul 2010, 09:34

I'm not being paranoid about the air-bag, and I will keep my head well out of the firing line. I was trying to forestall well intentioned warnings, and at the same time warn others that elderly explosive charges (however small) should not be treated with contempt...

The wiring diagram in the BoL seems to suggest that the only difference is that variable delay is simply a matter of a rheostat (variable resistance) in the stalk. I was hoping another forum member had actually tried the transplant and could enlighten me.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 31 Jul 2010, 21:29

I wouldn't worry too much abou the airbag - the risk with old ones is that they have rotted on the seams, and when they are asked to inflate they burst, thus rendering them 'useless'. They were originally dated at 10 years, but this was later increased to 15 years, and there seems to be no current advice on replacing them. Just disconnect the battery for 10 mins before removing, and then switch on from outside the car the first time.

On the intermittent wipe front, I've had a good look at service.citroen, and can find no evidence of any difference excet the stalk - which suggests the wiring is there, and the timer relay will do the business, so the only change required is the stalk. You could do this change, and then if the variable delay does not work, change out the relay too. Perhaps it never worked, but I didn't think there was much difference between fast and slow on the VSX I had.....

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 01 Aug 2010, 10:09

Richard. Thanks for confirming my thinking thus:- I'm guessing the delay unit has a capacitor that is charged a resistor until it reaches a threshold voltage which either triggers a transistor or a miniature relay which sends a pulse to the wiper relay (in the manner of a manual flick wipe) and the rheostat in the stalk simply adds a further variable resistance in series to increase the charge time?

We shall see. When I get round to doing it, I'll document the results in a post.

My reason for permanently disconnecting the air-bag is that old bags are liable to burst when triggered. Not only does it a bursting bag provide no protection, but it fails to contain the explosive flash. So as well as any other injuries, the hapless casualty is likely to receive flash burns to face, neck, upper torso, and arms. I came across someone who was burnt through a cotton shirt - nasty! Fortunately he was wearing sun-glasses.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 01 Aug 2010, 11:09

Personally, I'll take a half-baked airbag over none at all, if the crash is that severe.

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 01 Aug 2010, 11:24

i upgraded the xm to variable intermitant wipe and all i had to do was fit thee stalk and move one of tthe wires in the plug for the stalk, i was surprised myself, i think if i plugged it straight in everything worked except wash wipe hence a wire needed moving, cant see it being any different on a xantia.

And im not a fan of airbags, common sense says i shouldnt be but in an accident the chances are i will be trying to ovoid something on impact and this will mean my arm will be in the line of fire which wont be good.

D

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 01 Aug 2010, 11:40

I can only echo Dean's comment about fitting an intermittent stalk onto a
boggo base spec Xm without any wiring shennanigans - basically the trickery
is in the stalk and the existing wiring is all there ready to work - in design for
manufacture it'd be easier and more cost effective over the long run having
one version of the wiring loom and only supplementing major spurs of
additional feeds for extra kit like hydractive ARCS etc.

I hate airbags and far prefer the earlier single spoked CX, GS and even early
Xm nd Xantia before it all got bloated and ugly. No loss for me having an airbag
steering wheel removed - I'll just not have to crash into anything...

Andrew

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 01 Aug 2010, 17:46

addo wrote:Personally, I'll take a half-baked airbag over none at all, if the crash is that severe.

The thing is, when an airbag splits on deployment, it doesn't do it by halves. You get a huge rent - hence the flash burns - and the torn bag provides as much cushioning as .....

On topic, I understand exactly what you're all saying about just changing the stalk, it just seems too simple for a Citroen (once I've got the steering wheel off in order to remove the column shrouds to get at the stalks.

Seriously, some of Citroen's engineers have had some really clever and innovative ideas that have made it into production. Some of their other design engineers seem to have been perverse instead of clever!

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 01 Aug 2010, 20:50

Old-Guy wrote:
addo wrote:Personally, I'll take a half-baked airbag over none at all, if the crash is that severe.
The thing is, when an airbag splits on deployment, it doesn't do it by halves. You get a huge rent - hence the flash burns - and the torn bag provides as much cushioning as .....

Good god where are you getting this from? If airbags were such a problem the stories would be published far and wide. I've lost count of the number of airbags I've disconnected and re-connected, just stay out of the firing line if you're that worried.

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 12 Dec 2010, 17:12

Success!

I've transplanted both stalks from the spares car - the indicator/lights stalk to cure a suspected intermittent short in the indicator switch, and the wash-wipe stalk to get variable intermittent wipe.

No wires to swap (this is '96 VSX stalk into 95 SX. Just change stalks and everything worked as it should. My one whinge is that the delay varies from about 2 seconds to about 20 - I'd have preferred 0.5 to 10.