MOT failure

Martin Beevers · Unread post by **Martin Beevers** » 28 Jul 2010, 17:26

Hi all,
Failed today.

Not too bad tho, only 2 things. The front suspensions lower ball joints on both sides.

The BOL says I need a special tool to take these off and put the new 1's on. And I should entrust this work to a main stealer!

This can't be true... Has anyone done this job without said tools?

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 28 Jul 2010, 18:16

Martin Beevers wrote:Hi all,
Failed today.

Not too bad tho, only 2 things. The front suspensions lower ball joints on both sides.

The BOL says I need a special tool to take these off and put the new 1's on. And I should entrust this work to a main stealer!

This can't be true... Has anyone done this job without said tools?

There are those here who have done the job, I havn't.
FWIW the C5 is identical in this area I looked at doing it and decided that it wasn't a practical proposition without the tool which costs about a tenner, so decided to have it done by local independent, four weeks later ball joint unscrewed and wheel took up a very unusual angle

.

These things are coated in a thread locker, done up to about 230NM and finally have bits peined over. To get them out you will need to be able to apply substantial force and heat to "break" the locking compound.

Sure others will comment further on this.

cachaciero

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 28 Jul 2010, 18:21

What do you mean "it's not too bad its only the front ball joints" ?!

Worst case scenario - Take off the highly torqued up nut off the bottom of the ball joint before taking the hubs off (you'll need a big socket for the driveshaft hub nut) along with the front wishbones. Apply some proper beefy heat while smacking the wishbone off with a hefty lump hammer (The heat will melt the grease so relevant safety gear is useful). Try and peel back the peen (correct word?) bits that prevent the ball joint from undoing with a chisel or carefully grind them off. I then used a hefty punch to gradually shock the ball joint screw into turning, varying the slots to spread the force as it were. If you can get a proper tool then use that instead. Machine Mart may well have something.
The new ball joints from GSF are cheap, these need to be screwed on, again use a punch for the tightening. Get it to a stage where the peen (again, correct word?) looks like it will go into the dents on the hub neatly and tap them in. Put everything back on the car and bear in mind that the bottom ball joint nut needs to be done up to 350Nm so you'll either need a beefy torque wrench or a long bar on the end of a breaker bar.

On the plus side, the OS will be easier than the NS and hopefully, you won't have as much of a fight as me

Unread post by **RichardW** » 28 Jul 2010, 20:53

350NM??? What book are you reading? My Haynes says 45NM for the ball joint nut. 250NM for the ball joint itself mind, but 320NM for the drive shaft nut. 320NM is only 236 lbf ft which is only the equivalent of me (200 lbs) standing on a breaker bar 10" from the nut.....

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 28 Jul 2010, 21:17

RichardW wrote:350NM??? What book are you reading? My Haynes says 45NM for the ball joint nut. 250NM for the ball joint itself mind, but 320NM for the drive shaft nut. 320NM is only 236 lbf ft which is only the equivalent of me (200 lbs) standing on a breaker bar 10" from the nut.....

Just goes to show that sometimes the old memory gets a bit mixed

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 28 Jul 2010, 22:36

I've managed to undo the lower joint whilst still on the strut; the knack is
to secure the strut leg with chain or rope and try and work any leverage
into the centreline of the car. Others say there isn't any but look out for and
remove peening on the balljoints where they're turned over in x2 places onto
the hub.

This is the tool you'll need - check out www.tooled-up.com and eBay;

Pictured with old worn ball joint inside removal socket. The socket is gripped
with the original nut on the old joint taper holding it securely engaged in 4
slots and the lot turned off using a BIG bar and suitable sized socked onto
the outside of this.

Andrew

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 29 Jul 2010, 08:11

Theres a hit n miss as to how tight and easyilly these joints come out! Beleve me Ive had them!

Ive found the tool useless as theres not a simple way of holding the suspension leg SOLID to get the tourque on the joint to undo it.. (maybee Ive not used the tool in the correct way)

Theres also two cut outs that the edge of the joint gets knocked into to help prevent undooing..

The only real easy way is to get the hub off the car, mount it in a vice apply pleanty of heat but watch for the wheel bearing getting to hot and punch it out with a damm good puch and heavy hammer..

Ive got the socket and still not successfully used it on one at all... not a fav job, so I grab the job by the horns and get the hub off every time now..

Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Jul 2010, 08:51

citroenxm wrote: Ive got the socket and still not successfully used it on one at all... not a fav job, so I grab the job by the horns and get the hub off every time now..

Paul

Totally agreed the best method Paul

Tool has worked for me in the past.

thorter · Unread post by **thorter** » 29 Jul 2010, 09:40

I have had good success with a tool I made up, shown in this post - http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... highlight= You do need a reasonable workshop to make it.

Up to now it has always worked fine on the car, but it does need to be bashed round confidently with a medium weight hammer.

Fred

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 29 Jul 2010, 11:29

I'm expecting the Sealey tool sometime "real soon now" - will report on ease of BJ removal in situ with air-powered rattler.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 29 Jul 2010, 11:38

All well and good but what do you 'do' when the torque is too much for your
vice (or bench it's mounted on for that matter). Yes, ok buy another vice or
make another bench or cop out and take the car/hub somewhere else but
I've found no problems doing these joints on at least 3 Xants and x2 Xm's
now. Can't beat Cx's and Gs's that have x2 big bolts securing the seat of |
the joint - fitted a Cx one a few weeks back in under 30 minutes!

Andrew

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 29 Jul 2010, 11:44

the only two times I have undone these, in a rush and with little tools.. I have both times used a large stilson and a large pipe off the end of it (1-2m). the car stays on the ground and just the wheel comes off..
from memory, the ball joint is split and the lower arm provides a 'stop' for the wrench, holding up onto the offending part..

its no pretty or anything

but I would still try this approach next time..

obvioulsly the stilson doesnt have a lot to get hold of, it needs careful placement, also taking into account this approach may not work...then it's wishbone off and vice etc...

but, it can work..

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 29 Jul 2010, 12:46

addo wrote:I'm expecting the Sealey tool sometime "real soon now" - will report on ease of BJ removal in situ with air-powered rattler.

Ah addo thats cheating! Because they DO work well!!

Ive seen an air one do it, albeit after some time and patience... at first it looked like it was not going to move, but then suddenly it crept, then moved!

IIRC we used a small amount of heat aswell...and bent the "locks" out of the cut outs in the hub...

Paul

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 29 Jul 2010, 12:58

It'll stay stubbornly on for eternity if the x2 peening points aren't bent
back off the hub and any heat, scaffold bar and vice won't crack it...

Andrew

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 29 Jul 2010, 13:39

citroenxm wrote:...thats cheating!

No; it's using the right tool for the job.

I've rattled off hub nuts that were still peened on!

It's amazing what you can do with heavy artillery.

Perhaps FCF ought to run a group buy on a ½" air rattler and some basic sizes of six point deep sockets. You'll spend less time grunting and swearing, and more time swaggering 'cos everyone thinks you're a professional...

French Car Forum

MOT failure

MOT failure

Re: MOT failure