Xantia rear-ended

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 09 Jul 2010, 18:27

My pride and joy was rear-ended at lunch-time today.

As the innocent party, she WILL be repaired. Any mention of "write-off" will be met with a stern and uncompromising lecture on the law of liability!

The tailgate and the rear bumper are both goners. The tailgate slam panel is buckled and the tailgate won't open - the latch mechanism is detached from the exterior handle. I don't want the interior trim unnecessarily wrecked, but I need to get the tailgate open to see how serious the damage is to the slam panel, boot floor etc. Obviously I want to get the tailgate open before the assessor arrives to preempt the use of brute force.

I can't remember how to get the tailgate lower trim panel off and thus if it's possible with the tailgate 'closed'. Any one any advice or experience - particularly of this sort of repair.

Does anyone know if new tailgates, bumpers and body panels are still available from Citroen or will I have no choice but to go searching for second-hand parts?

Many thanks in anticipation

Guy

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 09 Jul 2010, 18:30

I imagine damage to the boot floor and rear crumple zones will be the areas to cheack, as this can often be what writes a car off.

Have the rear wings been damaged? Rear door shuts still ok?

KP · Unread post by KP » 09 Jul 2010, 19:32

IIRC from my mk2 estate some screw were on the edge hidden when the tail is closed

If its different or im wrong for the mk1 then i'd take the chance of wrecking some trim as another tailgate should come with the bits you need and the damaged could easily have happened during the impact.

I would imagine they will write it off thought as i bet the floor has taken some damage dor the tailgate to be damaged that much that it cant even open...

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 09 Jul 2010, 20:17

The good news is that none of the visible external steel panels show any damage at all. No nasty vertical creases, all door shut lines exactly as they should be. I've no idea yet what boot floor is like.

The tow bar probably took the worst of the impact, but I'll have a better idea in the morning when I should be able to get her on a lift with the spare wheel and cradle removed. I'll take some pictures for future reference.

As far as being written off, that isn't an issue. The law is absolutely clear: as the innocent party I am entitled to be put back in the position I was in prior to the collision - cost is irrelevant. Unfortunately, some insurance companies are unscrupulous with people who know no better and 'write off' vehicles quite unlawfully.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 09 Jul 2010, 21:04

The crying shame here is the perfect green s2 estate bodyshell I took to
the reclamation yard just Thurs gone. You could've had as much or the whole
of it as you saw fit for nothing as the yard refused me any value on the scrap
weight as I had practically stripped it bare - basically I needed it gone and off
my trailer. Would've made a great trailer as I left the rear subframe complete
with arms and hubs...

Shame.

Worse was the mint sunroof and AC VSX R reg TD emerald estate with an
iffy diesel pump thanks to DIY crapo fuel that was spirited away by the
Gippo's. Grrrrr

Anyhow. I've been locked out of an estate in the past and found undoing the
x2 bolts holding the striker loop for the tailgate catch allows it to be opened
from inside. I just cannot recall whether I damaged the closing aperture
plastic trim or whether it was loose enough to get access to.

The tailgate once open can be fettled - I'm sure the boot trim is held around
the edges with torx screws and needs to be fully opened.

Andrew

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 09 Jul 2010, 22:31

Hi Old Guy, sorry to read of your plight. Hope you fight them to the complete repair of your car!

The rear door lock mechanism is not easy to access with the door closed.

On the bodywork, there is a plastic trim panel that runs the width of the car, under the closing section of the rear door. This is held on with two nuts and four torx headed screws. You need this off to get to the hasp for the door lock.

The rear door trim panel is held on with torx headed screws, all around the peripheral and hidden when the door is closed. To operate the door mechanism, you may need to cut into this trim panel, but if that needs to be done to open the door, cannot see an assessor complaining, after all you are the grieving party. Once the lock is open, you may need to lay in the car and give the door a hefty kick or two to open, but it will. Had to do this in a scrapyard, to rescue parts from an estate.

You may need to look at the floor forward of the rear subframe, as this may ripple in a rear ender. I had the same in a hatchback fitted with a towbar.

Let me know what panels you need as I do have sources of new Xantia parts.

Good luck, we are rootin' for you.

Handyman

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 10 Jul 2010, 10:01

Andrew - I suspect the tailgate is wider on an S2 (mine's an S1).

Handyman I've replied to your PM re tailgate and bumper, but I'm bound to need various small parts (e.g. staple).

At the moment, I don't want to open the tailgate because it'll never shut again so the car will become unroadworthy (and unsecurable). In the clear light of morning, I can visualise perfectly how the trim is fastened!

Now for the shocker - I've just talked to the local Main Stealer's body parts specialist (very helpful) about new parts:

Tailgate (£1,001) N/A
Bumper (£267) ex factory
Aperture panel complete (£254) ex factory

I'll go visit a couple of really good body shops on Wednesday.

The good news is that the other party's insurers were on the phone yesterday, promising to be back in touch early next week.

We shall see...

Next job is to get her on a lift (friends in the trade can be soooo usefull!) and have a thorough look for damage underneath. It being Saturday morning, I shall get at least one expert opinion whether I want it or not!

Nasty pictures to follow a bit later.

Guy
I'll keep the forum posted -

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 10 Jul 2010, 10:04

Just goes to show, it can happen to anyone

I'm always paranoid in these potential situations what with all of the many hours I've put into my Xantia.

Keep us updated on your journey, I'm sure we will all pick up many tips if we are ever in that unfortunate position.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 10 Jul 2010, 10:58

Wow, expensive parts!

Surely with the price or the labour involved and the cost of parts it could write the car off, no matter who wass at fault? Possibly insurance should mean you are back in the position you were before the crash, however not always in the same car?

I dont know how it works, but more often than not, if the repair costs out weigh the value of the car it will be classed as a write off. Unless that is a clause you have found out?

I hope it doesnt come to that mind

A towball is often not a great thing in a rear end bump, as it acts as an extension to the chassis, being bolted directly to it, it sends to force into the chassis and not the soft absorbant bumper etc.

One Xantia we used to look after got hit from the rear, the bumper was only slightly scuffed but the towball had taken most of the impact, which set off the rear crumple zones and raised the boot floor. It was only after the accident that the owner realised, the car was left like this and not repaired as no visual damage could be seen.

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 10 Jul 2010, 16:55

Hullo Guy, the tailgates on S1 &S2 are exactly the same body part, so they are inter-changeable.

The only variations are the panels forward of the front bulkhead and all the guff stuffed into the interiors, depending on spec levels.

H

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 10 Jul 2010, 19:08

I had the car on the lift this morning and 'we' had a really good look underneath. On the off-side the tow-bar assembly (genuine Cit) has moved a fraction (1-2mm) on the mounting bolts, but the bodywork is fine. I've pulled up the rear carpet - boot floor is straight, damage is confined to the area immediately around the latch staple, which has been pushed forward and up. The tailgate latch seems to have jumped off and over the staple which is still holding the tailgate closed. The gap is now big enough to get a spanner into to undo the staple bolt - now waiting for the insurers to contact me and the 'discussions' to start!

Next daft question - where's the best place(s) to disconnect the electrics when swapping tailgates?

Dinner calls - photos tomorrow.

Guy

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 10 Jul 2010, 19:11

Old-Guy wrote: Next daft question - where's the best place(s) to disconnect the electrics when swapping tailgates?

At the body repair centre, with the 3rd party's insurance paying for it while you put your feet up

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 10 Jul 2010, 19:46

There's a wiring loom (plus x1 tailgate water feedpipe) which run into the
interior at either tailgate hinge and these have multiplug disconnectors inside
the rear 1/4 wing in the area just behind the boot carpet/liner and the
tail light access point where you'd change the bulbs and I've seen some
cars have their jack stored in a pouch.

To make access possible for the loom you need to undo the boot side carpet,
accessed by removal of the plastic trim that runs along the ledge where the
lugs are for the parcel shelf and where it runs up the rearmost D pillar and
feed the multiplugs up through the rear pillars and out through the large
grommet at the hinge area.

The struts undo by levering the strong U clamp at the ball and socket ends,
make sure it doesn't spring into your eye or out in the ether never to be
seen again!

All the above may sound like a real PITA but the wiring inside all the
sleeving and through the grommets has little slack so the fiddle and bulk
of adding new wiring connectors would be best avoided.

Andrew

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 10 Jul 2010, 19:55

Just realised too the hinge points best to undo aren't the one's physically
through the hinge pivot in the opening aperture of the tailgate but the
mounting bracket with x2 large 40 or 50 Torx bolts accessed in a box
section in the rearmost trailing edge of the roof - IIRC the door seal needs
removing and then the headlining can be dropped slightly out of the way.

The beauty of this approach is the tailgate weight is NOT fully open and in
the air acting as a big lever whilst you're removing the actual pivot point.
Undoing the x4 bolts holding the mounting brackets means the weight of
the tailgate is still pressing into the tailgate aperture not twisting or falling
onto you when it's fully undone. You then simply lower the tailgate too and
then physically lift it backwards and up and off comfortably - a one person
job rather than big dramas and the risk of trying to hold the weight of the
tailgate up and remove the pivot pins and manhandle the lot without
hurting yourself!

Andrew

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 11 Jul 2010, 10:33

I agree with what Andrew said.

H