05 Dispatch Van - Really loud clatter on start

nginmu · Unread post by **nginmu** » 06 May 2010, 15:07

I think this vehicle has a 1.9 DW8 diesel engine

It's been making a bit of a din on startup for a while, 6 months or so maybe, but the metallic hammering/clatter has been going away relatively quickly after the engine has begun to warm up.

I did mention it to the local garage last service but he thought it was 'just normal cold diesel noise'.

Anyway today, started her up, sounded like an absolute bag of hammers. Real loud metallic clattering that sounded like something was about to break. Took off the serpentine belt to exclude alternator & power steering pump & started up again; same noise.

It's hard to pinpoint the noise by just listening; & it's that loud that trying a stethoscopic approach would be useless. But as far as I can tell the noise seems to be centering on the diesel pump area.

I'm wondering where the water pump is on these engines - is it hidden under the cover & driven by the timing belt? And if the water pump starts to fail can it sound like a clatter?

Thanks for any info / thoughts.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 06 May 2010, 20:28

i would not try startting it up again till you have had the timming belt cover's off to make sure it is ok, otherwise you might end up with a big repair bill,

were abouts are you

regards malcolm

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 06 May 2010, 21:53

Ive never heard of a water pump clatter in these, they use a very compact small pump, driven by the cam belt..

Whats the condition of the Crank Pully?? How well does the engine run, does she rev freely, or a bit smokey?? How well does she start after the heater light goes out?

Paul

nginmu · Unread post by **nginmu** » 06 May 2010, 22:55

Up near Liverpool Malcom. One thing for sure I certainly won't be driving it up and down the M6 like usual till I've figured out what's wrong!

The crank pulley seems ok, at least as far as I can see without removing cam cover or anything. Engine seems to run pretty much as normal apart from the clatter; always been slightly smoky on cold start up but the smoke clears within seconds; nothing seems to have changed there.

Starts absolutely fine under any circumstances, just turn the key briefly once, no need for any throttle

No oil or coolant loss. A previous suspected head gasket / coolant problem was traced to nothing more than a split hose.

I will make a video of it tomorrow & post it up on youtube

nginmu · Unread post by **nginmu** » 07 May 2010, 08:13

Recording of noise:

Thanks for any suggestions.

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 07 May 2010, 09:31

Thanks for that, good idea

Sounds like good old fashioned diesel knock but a bit excessive, most likely a faulty injector or over advanced pump timing on starting. If it runs OK I shouldn't worry about it to much.

Peter

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 07 May 2010, 10:07

Then thats the point then, sounds as though the electronic Advance in the pump is not working and retarding / advancing the timing...

Flywheel sensor? Have you changed that? Its on top of the gearbox, at the side of the block.. one 10mm nut to remove it. In saying that, if it was faulty I dont think the engine would run.. So Id be looking at a faulty pump.

Paul

nginmu · Unread post by **nginmu** » 07 May 2010, 12:24

No - but I'll have a look at it, thanks. This French guy also seems to have a similar sounding knock & in his case, disconnecting the TPS made it go away (as far as I can gather)

http://tinyurl.com/french-guy-translated

& then he goes on to dismantle the entire electrical system, ECU & all, and fixes it with the final comment

it was a problem with the signal of the injector driver, who lacked the calculator to vary the advance.

lol

I have an EOBD reader thingy so I'll try and check to see if there are any electrical fault codes stored.

nginmu · Unread post by **nginmu** » 07 May 2010, 18:37

Results of attaching Gendan PC-based EOBD FCR tool:

No ECU fault codes reported

All supported interfaces reporting sensible values:
- coolant temp
- battery voltage
- calculated load
- engine rpm

So far, have had trouble locating the flywheel sensor, in the Dispatch things are a little cramped in that area.

Noise is persisting. It is still discernible when engine is fully hot but not quite as loud. Always seems to be worst on acceleration.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 07 May 2010, 19:00

i think i would still check the cam belt area, just to make sure nout is just about to fail,

regards malcolm

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 07 May 2010, 21:28

I would say injector, if you give it about 1500 rpm and slacken off each injector feed pipe in turn, when it stops knocking (but jumps about a bit) that's the one.

Peter

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 07 May 2010, 21:32

Nah Peter, its not injector, its defenatly a Pump problem...

Paul

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 07 May 2010, 21:35

Hi Paul

I will take your word for it but if you listen to the recording it only sounds to be knocking on one cylinder.

Peter

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 07 May 2010, 21:48

Well ok then, what about the injector with the Sensor attached to it.

??

Would this one make the said noise?

Paul

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 07 May 2010, 21:51

Don't know about these electronic things Paul but an injector that's not shutting properly or is dribbling fuel instead of atomising it will make it knock like a goodun.

Peter