R plate Xantia V6 Exclusive starting problem.

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 03 May 2010, 15:52

Hello all,

I have an R plate (in Green) 3.0 Ltr V6 24 valve Exclusive, which has had starting problems for some time.

I took off the starter motor today (20 mins) and tested it, and it works flawlessly which has left me a little perplexed.

The problem I have is intermittent. Sometimes when I turn the ignition key I get none of the usual lights on the dashboard, and trying to start the car results in silence, not even an associated click of a relay.

In the past, turning the ignition on and off several times overcame this problem, all the correct dashboard lights would come on, then the car would start. Recently, nothing I have tried has enabled me to start the car.

My brother (who sold me this car a year ago), said he'd had the starter and the ignition switch replaced, but neither had resulted in curing the problem. On one occasion I was travelling at night down a very steep and winding road, when all the electrics including the main lights, dashboard and engine cut out for a few seconds (fortunately I didn't panic) and was able to restart the car whilst moving when the dashboard lights came on again.

Other times I have gone visiting, come back to the car and the problem was there.

I'm at a complete loss, the fuses are fine, but the problem was intermittent, and now seems permanent.

Can anyone help?......please.......pretty please

PS I also have a problematic Activa, but I'll post about that later as I really wanted to get the V6 running reliably first.

Xantidote · Unread post by **Xantidote** » 03 May 2010, 19:35

Welcome to the Forum, Shaolin

,

I can't help you, having a TD, but there are some keen V6 forum members, and I'm sure they'll be along soon to help you out. Hopefully they're not all out fixing their V6s!

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 03 May 2010, 20:01

Thanks Martin, though I suspect they are all out driving their V6's (and Activas) with big grins on their faces. I thoroughly enjoyed both my Xantia's when they were on the road, so much so that I have been sorely tempted to marry the V6 block with the Activa turbo and gearbox to make a full blown manual 3.0 litre turbo Activa.........but then I realised I don't have the space or money to do it.....yet

(Sacre Blue, is that sacriledge?).

Unread post by **xantia_v6** » 03 May 2010, 20:16

I am not sure, from your description, exactly what the symptoms are at the moment... Are the warning lights coming on normally? Do you hear any click from the solenoid?

Have you tried moving the gear selector while holding the key in the start position?

From the ignition switch, the start circuit goes through a relay (controlled by the transmission multi-switch), and then to the starter. There is a connector clipped to the bottom of the A/C compressor which tends to suffer from corrosion.

BTW, I assume this is a Mk2 V6?

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 03 May 2010, 20:38

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the transmission multiswitch, and now you mention it, without the car running, I can't get the gear selector out of park. Where is the multiswitch located? I could do with examining this in more detail. The connector on the bottom of the AC unit also makes a lot of sense, so I will check that out carefully too.

Thank you, it's information like that which I have been after for over a year. Those items may not be the problem, but the more I can eliminate, the closer I can get to resolving this.

To answer your question about the lights, the dashboard indicator lights (all of them) fail to light up as normal and this is proof positive that the car will not start or even energise in cabin or under-bonnet relays. It is only when the proper sequence and display of dashboard indicator lights come on as expected, that the car will start, however it has been nearly a year since I was able to get the car to start, I haven't been able to get it going since (the dash lights refuse to come on as they should, ie all the warning ones which go out when the car starts normally).

Thanks again for your help in this matter.

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 03 May 2010, 22:06

Hi Shaolin

Not 100% sure on this but i would guess that you have a break somewhere in the wiring loom to the ignition switch that is/has been making contact and allowing you to start the car.
Assuming that Xantias are pretty standard in the main ignition wiring loom ie fuse box to ignition switch have a look through This Topic particularly the first page.

To access the wiring plug/socket that is shown on the drivers side you will need to remove the windscreen scuttle and the plastic cover.The main wiring loom rund from the fusebox (engine compartment) through the n/s wing and then down underneath the radiator and then up into the o/s wing before emerging in the o/s corner of the engine compartment underneath the scuttle.

My guess is that the break will be in/at the join of the wiring looms in the o/s wing in the area of the o/s front wheel arch

I dont have any electrical diagrams for the V6 but if you post up if its S1 or S2 then im sure someone(CitroJim

) will be able to supply the relevant diagrams for you.

Hope this helps in some way

Colin

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 03 May 2010, 22:40

Thank you Colin, again this is very useful information. I think my Xantia is an S2 (same 'face' as my activa which is pictured in my profile). By S1 I take it you mean original, and by S2 the first 'facelift'?

I am now resigned to tracing wiring wherever it may go.....oh joy...but resolute in my determination to find the problem.

A wiring diagram would be a godsend, so hopefully CitroJim can make one available/point me in the right direction to getting one (a manual would be good too).

Thank you all so much for your detailed explanations, I could kiss you all!
I will post my successes/failures as soon as I have carried out all the tests highlighted in this post.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 03 May 2010, 22:49

S1 = grill seperate from bonnet (much better looking, don't believe anyone who says otherwise, they're fibbing

)
S2 = grill is part of the bonnet

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 03 May 2010, 22:55

Right, in that case they are both S1's (plastic grilles, separate from bonnet, bolted to bumper section).

I'm learning a lot today, and yes I agree they are the better looking ones

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 04 May 2010, 08:12

Hi Shaolin and welcome to the forum

Good to see another V6 and Activa owner! Do I understand your V6 is a rare MK1 too?

Mine showed similar. Turn the key, nothing, not even a click and then the starter would burst into life. It's a known problem.

There is a modification we do to the starter circuit. I dod mine and never a problem since.

Look at this thread for all details. The mod is detailed halfway down page 2.

Hope that helps...

Unread post by **xantia_v6** » 04 May 2010, 08:27

Jim, He has no warning lights, so there is a problem upstream of the ignition switch. He needs diagrams. You scanned these for me last year I think, but I have lost the link.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 04 May 2010, 08:35

It think we've lost the thread a bit here...it's tagged as a starting problem, but I don't think it is really - from the description there is nothing when the key is turned, no dash lights at position 1 or 2, and ultimately no starter activity. This points the finger further up the line from the start inhibit relay - the power is never getting that far! Now, this would point to the ignition switch to me - but the OP says that has been replaced. However, I would question which bits were replaced - if the lock part was replaced, but NOT the acutal power switch at the back, then it's no wonder it made no difference

In this case I would take the column shrouds off (it's a MK1, so steering wheel off required....

) and probe the connections to the ign switch under the steering column (there are only 3 of them - but only 2 are used on the V6 by the looks of it) to check for power at the feed side - only 1 pin should be live, that associated with wire BMF on the NR connector (can't remember what colour that is...!), and then to see if power is being transferred across the ignition switch. If it's not then you've found your culprit, and it ought to be possible to coax it into life by bridging out the relevant terminals. If there is no power there, or it is being tranferred across the switch then we can start looking elsewhere. Is there not a common earth point near the steering column somewhere - this might have been disturbed (has it had a new matrix fitted?) or come loose, and might be giving the symptoms - although I can't see any evidence of this on the wiring diag....

Edit - actually the third connection is presumably used, this will be the infamous HRW / Blower connections, and is on another wiring diag.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 04 May 2010, 10:06

CitroJim wrote:Hi Shaolin and welcome to the forum

Good to see another V6 and Activa owner! Do I understand your V6 is a rare MK1 too?

Mine showed similar. Turn the key, nothing, not even a click and then the starter would burst into life. It's a known problem.

There is a modification we do to the starter circuit. I dod mine and never a problem since.

Look at this thread for all details. The mod is detailed halfway down page 2.

Hope that helps...

Sounds like a Sister to yours Jim!

No one's beaten mine yet! A P 1997 Plate

Paul

Shaolin Twelve · Unread post by **Shaolin Twelve** » 04 May 2010, 10:33

What a lovely welcome by all, thank you.

Hello CitroJim......everywhere I go your name pops up, you are a living legend it seems....can't do a search for Citroen without a reference to you

Yes my V6 is a Mk1, originally belonged to an exec at Citroen in Slough, no headlight washers. The way you describe the problem you had is also what happens to mine, the dashboard lights may be an additional problem, but regardless you have all given me such a wealth of information, I feel confident that a fix is in near.

The heater matrix is original (101k miles), but doesn't appear to be leaking.....yet. That's something I'm not looking forward to doing, but I expect that will be on the cards at some point.

The modification that CitroJim has mentioned is not present, so I am eager to get this done first as it appears to be a permanent solution if I'm not mistaken.

Thanks RichardW for the extra info regarding the ignition switch. I don't know if the entire switch was replaced, in the past turning the switch on and off several times finally resulted in the proper dash lights coming up, and then the car would start, so you could be right on that count. Time to get the trusty multimeter out......

The connector on the bottom of the AC sounds highly likely as a source of problems too, so that will be modified (unfortunately that's all got to wait a day or too now as I have to go and sort out a laptop for a friend, and some good weather would help).

Basically I'm going to work through all the suggestions here, and by the end of it I will have a working, reliable V6, I feel it in my bones

Then I'm going to sort the cruise control, and tackle the cam belt, and put
new disks on the front, new tyres all round, and deal with what I suspect is a weak NS anti-roll bar......one step at a time though. I also think that changing the auto-box fluid would be a good idea from some of the posts I have read elsewhere on the site.

Thanks to you all for your valuable input, I hope to be posting good results soon

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 04 May 2010, 11:29

The problem with your cruise control will be one of two things.

The rubber pipe that goes onto the vacuum pump just behind the front bumper or the switch on the brake pedal.

If you look under the bumper just in front of the passengers wheel there's a little inspection piece that you can remove with 3 torx screws, peer up through the hole and you can see a little pump type thing with a pipe going into it.

Imagine trying to push a pipe the thickness of your pinky over a spiggot as thick as your thumb.... This is what caused the pipe to crack, pull it off, cut the end off it, soften the rubber (I did it with a lighter I nicked off me dad) then push it back onto the spiggot, job done.

The brake pedal switch on my mums packed in so we took it off, squired it with contact cleaner, put it back on and it seemed to solve the problem.

New brake pedal switches from the dealer used to be about £60.

David.