Well for those of you that may be interested here are some pictures of the alarm;
This is the alarm kit itself:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darren.dale/alarm1.jpg
Here is a picture of where I was thinking of locating it-to the left of the PAS reservoir:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darren.dale/alarm3.jpg
I never got it fitted on sunday as I realised I wouldn't have time, starting at 4pm! Think I'm going to buy some dash bulbs then give the dash a bit of a strip down, starting early on saturday or sunday if the weather is good, get the bulbs and the alarm fitted.
BTW does anyone have any more info on the ZX C/L controller?
Belled up innit?
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Russell
- Posts: 102
- Joined: 20 Jan 2004, 03:15
Hi Wheeler,
I might be wrong, but I thought this most likely: I think the controller ignores input on a lock/unlock wire after a short period, and only operates in the other direction when it sees the other input fired. If you know different, just say so, and I'll shut up..!
I expect it would be too costly to build a time delay into the limit switches, and easier to just ignore them at the central locking controller after a short time, probably when current sense on the solonoid lines at the controller indicates the solonoid is stopped in either the locked or unlocked positions. My schematic seems to indicate permanent mechanical switching on one line or the other
Anyway, the best way to find out for certain is to monitor what actually goes on at the door switch inputs to the central locking controller, when the latch is moved from lock to unlock. I've put my door back together... so anyone got a central locking controller they can look at and measure a signal on..?
I do expect the IR reciever pulse to be of short duration however, and maybe even pulsed three times for unlock, as the same signal can be used to flash the indicators. Exactly how that ties into the central locking controller isn't shown on my diagrams at all..!
Cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
I might be wrong, but I thought this most likely: I think the controller ignores input on a lock/unlock wire after a short period, and only operates in the other direction when it sees the other input fired. If you know different, just say so, and I'll shut up..!
I expect it would be too costly to build a time delay into the limit switches, and easier to just ignore them at the central locking controller after a short time, probably when current sense on the solonoid lines at the controller indicates the solonoid is stopped in either the locked or unlocked positions. My schematic seems to indicate permanent mechanical switching on one line or the other
Anyway, the best way to find out for certain is to monitor what actually goes on at the door switch inputs to the central locking controller, when the latch is moved from lock to unlock. I've put my door back together... so anyone got a central locking controller they can look at and measure a signal on..?
I do expect the IR reciever pulse to be of short duration however, and maybe even pulsed three times for unlock, as the same signal can be used to flash the indicators. Exactly how that ties into the central locking controller isn't shown on my diagrams at all..!
Cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
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wheeler
- Posts: 7917
- Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
- x 1056
Russel,
i see where you are coming from now,i can see how the changeover relay method would work.i dont have a ZX schematic so i cant see the system but it sounds likely from what you say that the locking controller would ignore the -ve signal after a short time (for safety if nothing else),i have read when you said assuming the wires float when not in use & took my ideas from that.
personally i would just get the adaptor & just join 1 wire to each to the lock & unlock pulse [8D] . find the wires the easy way.use a 12v test lamp which is earthed,probe it into each wire on the locking control unit,when you hit the right wire it will lock/unlock & you have found the wires.
about the IR signal & indicators- the locking controller passes a signal to the alarm ECU to tell it the alarm has been armed/doors locked.its then the alarm ECU which flashes the indicators,they dont flash directly off the IR pulse.
i see where you are coming from now,i can see how the changeover relay method would work.i dont have a ZX schematic so i cant see the system but it sounds likely from what you say that the locking controller would ignore the -ve signal after a short time (for safety if nothing else),i have read when you said assuming the wires float when not in use & took my ideas from that.
personally i would just get the adaptor & just join 1 wire to each to the lock & unlock pulse [8D] . find the wires the easy way.use a 12v test lamp which is earthed,probe it into each wire on the locking control unit,when you hit the right wire it will lock/unlock & you have found the wires.
about the IR signal & indicators- the locking controller passes a signal to the alarm ECU to tell it the alarm has been armed/doors locked.its then the alarm ECU which flashes the indicators,they dont flash directly off the IR pulse.
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Russell
- Posts: 102
- Joined: 20 Jan 2004, 03:15
Hi Wheeler,
How the IR reciever hooks up is just guesswork for me, I have no circuit, but I expect it works pretty much as you suggest. I was just wondering if the same signal or signals from the IR reciever are used to both arm and disarm the alarm system, and lock and unlock the car.
I just thought if a line from the IR reciever pulsed low three times when the plip is fired for unlock, it could go directly to the central locking controller and unlock the car, and could go via the alarm ECU which might just be a double pole relay straight to each indicator
side. The locking controller ignoring the same input after a short time delay would not even notice.
But this is still just a guess, I need the circuits for the IR hook up and alarm circuits. Anyone got these..?
Cheers
Russell [8D]
How the IR reciever hooks up is just guesswork for me, I have no circuit, but I expect it works pretty much as you suggest. I was just wondering if the same signal or signals from the IR reciever are used to both arm and disarm the alarm system, and lock and unlock the car.
I just thought if a line from the IR reciever pulsed low three times when the plip is fired for unlock, it could go directly to the central locking controller and unlock the car, and could go via the alarm ECU which might just be a double pole relay straight to each indicator
side. The locking controller ignoring the same input after a short time delay would not even notice.
But this is still just a guess, I need the circuits for the IR hook up and alarm circuits. Anyone got these..?
Cheers
Russell [8D]
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Guru Meditation
- Posts: 259
- Joined: 18 Dec 2002, 02:30
Right then the alarm is fitted! Did it this weekend. Took HOURS about 14 in total! Although it was very cold on both days, and it took ages getting all the wiring tidied up and looking neat afterwards-I tried to do as quality a job as possible. I will post up some pictures of the fitting and the finished job soon. In the end I had purchased a c/l interface for the alarm which was £15 which as Russell had already suggested basically just a couple of relays. It came with instructions and the part of the instructions for relay controlled negative switching locking was the diagram I used.
After I connected it all up but before I put everything back together ([:p]) I tested it and it all worked first time including the remote locking (the sound of the locking going off-music to my ears!) APART from one little detail which was the right hand indicator stalk didn't work. I had wired the powered flashers to the left and right indicators near the column switch and I had made a bad connection. I remade this and it was all fine.
Range is good, 10m+ from all sides. The alarm came with two remotes which is alright for just £50.
The only problem I've had is that the ignition disable circuit doesn't always seem to work....let me explain:
The alarm has an 'ignition disable' circuit which is two wires. The instructions say cut the ignition switch wire to the vehicles ignition coil and join to the alarm-when the alarm is set the ignition is disabled, the starter will turn but the engine will not fire. On my diesel I don't have an igition coil and I couldn't seem to work out which ignition line goes direct to the stop solenoid (the circuit for the stop solenoid on the turbo diesel seemed to go through other components-so I took the feed to the starter motor relay and spliced that into the alarm. I was a bit worried about frying the alarm as those igition wires are quite chunky and these ignition disable wires are very thin. But it seems alright and when the alarm is set the starter motor will not engage. But twice now AFTER I have disarmed the alarm I have tried to start the starter will not turn, it has cleared itself after setting then unsetting the alarm but I'm not sure exactly what fixes the problem-so I'm a little worried that may be a problem developing, but if it does I'll investigate further.
After I connected it all up but before I put everything back together ([:p]) I tested it and it all worked first time including the remote locking (the sound of the locking going off-music to my ears!) APART from one little detail which was the right hand indicator stalk didn't work. I had wired the powered flashers to the left and right indicators near the column switch and I had made a bad connection. I remade this and it was all fine.
Range is good, 10m+ from all sides. The alarm came with two remotes which is alright for just £50.
The only problem I've had is that the ignition disable circuit doesn't always seem to work....let me explain:
The alarm has an 'ignition disable' circuit which is two wires. The instructions say cut the ignition switch wire to the vehicles ignition coil and join to the alarm-when the alarm is set the ignition is disabled, the starter will turn but the engine will not fire. On my diesel I don't have an igition coil and I couldn't seem to work out which ignition line goes direct to the stop solenoid (the circuit for the stop solenoid on the turbo diesel seemed to go through other components-so I took the feed to the starter motor relay and spliced that into the alarm. I was a bit worried about frying the alarm as those igition wires are quite chunky and these ignition disable wires are very thin. But it seems alright and when the alarm is set the starter motor will not engage. But twice now AFTER I have disarmed the alarm I have tried to start the starter will not turn, it has cleared itself after setting then unsetting the alarm but I'm not sure exactly what fixes the problem-so I'm a little worried that may be a problem developing, but if it does I'll investigate further.
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ZXturbo_Aura
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 02:56
i recently finished fitting my laserline alarm, really good alarm system, quite pleased. the immobiliser part of the alarm is simply a internal relay with a max. current of 10 Amps, to immobilise these diesels properly, the stop solenoid has to be cut.... so.... there are three(!) wires from it..i cut each one at a time, and the engine started every time! i then cut 2 at a time and the engine was dead...2 wires from the stop solenoid have to be cut to immobilise the car and my alarm only has one relay! 
im going to have to get2 additional relays, that will be the best solution and locate them under the dash, hidden! any other suggestions?!
Dan
im going to have to get2 additional relays, that will be the best solution and locate them under the dash, hidden! any other suggestions?!Dan
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Guru Meditation
- Posts: 259
- Joined: 18 Dec 2002, 02:30
Hmm I just had another look at the car-this starting problem seems to be happening frequently-five times in a row it wouldn't start just now, click click click, sixth time it started, switch off, seventh time it started, eigth time click, ninth time click??? What's happenin? It MUST have something to do with the alarm fitting as it has never ever had this problem before the alarm went in. It is strange-I unset the alarm, attempt to start the car. I hear the starter motor relay click, but nothing else happens, starter does not even attempt to turn. I don't think it is the battery as I tried switching main beam on and also watching the instrument panel while attempting to start and I could hear the starter relay click but the lights or instrument panel lights didn't dim at all-I think it is something to do with the 'ignition disable' circuit on the alarm, but wtf is happening I don't know. I think I'll reinstate the starter circuit as it was and try to do the solenoid instead-I guess I'll be facing the same problem as ZXAuraTurbo with the three wires.....
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ZXturbo_Aura
- Posts: 148
- Joined: 10 Oct 2003, 02:56
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Guru Meditation
- Posts: 259
- Joined: 18 Dec 2002, 02:30
I just had a thought-Maybe it is something to do with the electrical power getting cut to the alarm when the starter is engaged as the alarm is now providing a current path for the starter motor control relay, which is lost when the starter circuit is engaged causing the starter relay to disengage before the starter motor gets going? May be the starter circuit is not suitable for protecting in this way. Maybe I'm talking crap
Typical ZXAura-that would be just my luck to have this coincidence occur at exactly the same time!
Typical ZXAura-that would be just my luck to have this coincidence occur at exactly the same time!
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wheeler
- Posts: 7917
- Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
- x 1056
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Russell
- Posts: 102
- Joined: 20 Jan 2004, 03:15
Hail.
I think this ignition disable stuff is just a switch that is off when the alarm is set, and on when the alarm is disabled? Hope so, cos otherwise the rest could be bull.
If so, and the immobilser wires are thin, and you have hooked it into the starter solonoid circuit then the switch and wires may not have the current capacity to allow the solonoid to throw properly. If the solonoid only gets 95% of the way to fully engaged, it never makes the thumping great switch contacts that start the starter motor turning.
The solonoid may take up to 5 or 6 amps continuously, far more than the ignition coil winding it is intended to switch, and maybe well more than the skinny wires are happy with.
Suggestions:
Check the spec on the alarm unit for immobiliser switch current..
Check that these wires are expected to behave like a switch, and test this with a meter if you have one. If they are supposed to switch but haven't the clout to drive the solonoid with the wires attached you could wire in yet another relay.!
NO to the solonoid, with a heftyish wire and blue crimp terminal
COM to the solonoid feed from the ignition (currently attached to alarm)
relay coil +ve to battery +ve
relay coil -ve to alarm immobiliser wire 1
GND to alarm immobiliser wire 2
So when the alarm is off, the immobilser wires are switched together, the coil of the relay gets ground and the relay switches the solonoid
feed from the ignition to the solonoid.
When ignition goes +ve, as you start it, the solonoid gets a healthy dose of 12 volts and hopefully starts every time.
Even if the alarm is then accidentally set, it doesn't stop the car, it just won't let it start again if it's turned off. Bit safer than having the alarm turn your fuel supply off when doing 90 down the motorway..! (I wouldn't wire any third party product into my stop solonoid except possibly a good quality switch to hide somewhere.. and I'd have to be very sure about that..!)
Cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
I think this ignition disable stuff is just a switch that is off when the alarm is set, and on when the alarm is disabled? Hope so, cos otherwise the rest could be bull.
If so, and the immobilser wires are thin, and you have hooked it into the starter solonoid circuit then the switch and wires may not have the current capacity to allow the solonoid to throw properly. If the solonoid only gets 95% of the way to fully engaged, it never makes the thumping great switch contacts that start the starter motor turning.
The solonoid may take up to 5 or 6 amps continuously, far more than the ignition coil winding it is intended to switch, and maybe well more than the skinny wires are happy with.
Suggestions:
Check the spec on the alarm unit for immobiliser switch current..
Check that these wires are expected to behave like a switch, and test this with a meter if you have one. If they are supposed to switch but haven't the clout to drive the solonoid with the wires attached you could wire in yet another relay.!
NO to the solonoid, with a heftyish wire and blue crimp terminal
COM to the solonoid feed from the ignition (currently attached to alarm)
relay coil +ve to battery +ve
relay coil -ve to alarm immobiliser wire 1
GND to alarm immobiliser wire 2
So when the alarm is off, the immobilser wires are switched together, the coil of the relay gets ground and the relay switches the solonoid
feed from the ignition to the solonoid.
When ignition goes +ve, as you start it, the solonoid gets a healthy dose of 12 volts and hopefully starts every time.
Even if the alarm is then accidentally set, it doesn't stop the car, it just won't let it start again if it's turned off. Bit safer than having the alarm turn your fuel supply off when doing 90 down the motorway..! (I wouldn't wire any third party product into my stop solonoid except possibly a good quality switch to hide somewhere.. and I'd have to be very sure about that..!)
Cheers
Russell [:)][:)]
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Guru Meditation
- Posts: 259
- Joined: 18 Dec 2002, 02:30
I was in doubt about the thickness of the wires, maybe they don't let enough current flow through to reliably throw the starter relay.
I was all set to restore the original ignition wiring and then wire the disable circuit up to the stop solenoid and then I went and read your warning-I'd never thought of it like that before.
I think I'll have to fit another relay like you suggest. The only downer about using the starter circuit over the stop solenoid is that the car could still be push started, whereas with the stop solenoid it would crank but not fire-thief would probably think the car was just behaving normally!
I was all set to restore the original ignition wiring and then wire the disable circuit up to the stop solenoid and then I went and read your warning-I'd never thought of it like that before.
I think I'll have to fit another relay like you suggest. The only downer about using the starter circuit over the stop solenoid is that the car could still be push started, whereas with the stop solenoid it would crank but not fire-thief would probably think the car was just behaving normally!