C5 1.6 Hdi

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 01 Mar 2010, 13:18

I'm having an anoying problem with my new (to me) C5.
When cold the engine power dies when pulling out of junctions or on roundabouts. The engine is still running, and it only lasts for a second or two and then off it goes.
Its been to the dealers about this issue.
The first time, they could see faults recorded, they could replicate the fault, and so they did a download on the car.
After that it still did it, but they could find no faults recorded. The car behaved fine for them and me (but engine was warm).
They did another download which I am told was a different one from the previous one and it was the result of a Citroen bulletin on this issue.
The problem is still happening. Has anyone else found this problem with the 1.6 HDi? I've a feeling that as the weather warms the problem will go away itself untill next winter, so will not be reolved under its extended warrenty.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 01 Mar 2010, 19:37

Had this with a Scenic2 DCi, same problem but might not be the same fault. OUrs was the MAf sensor, though renault wouldnt believe it. Try suggesting its replaced if its still under warranty, renault eventually replaced it for us. It didnt put in any fault codes either.

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 02 Mar 2010, 10:27

Thanks Citroenmad.
Will try that.
its a shame I have to pay for diagnosis, then see if the warrenty company will cover it.
Maf sensors seem to cause all kinds of problems. Maybe they should be called naf sensors.

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 31 May 2010, 10:58

Too much waffle. The short answer, it was the EGR.

The long answer.

Its been a while, but I now have this problem sorted.
It went to a main Stealer three times. The first time they say the experienced the fault, and did a software download, which I discovered later was to address a problem reading the position of the egr.
The second time they could not find a fault, but did a software download again, assured me it was a different one to previous, even though it was a couple of weeks apart.
The third time they could find no fault. The mentioned the possibility that it might be the Mass Airflow Meter, and the mechanic said we could go down that route if I wanted to.
I have one of those insurance type warranties, and the Mechanic kept my book for that and said he would contact me after speaking with warranty company.

Weeks went by and no call. So I rang the Stealers, and noone knew anything about it at first, after being passed around with everyone asking me what the mechanic's name was (which I didn't know), I got back to the first person who actually had my warranty book on his desk. I told him again the problem and about the mass airflow meter, and was told he would speak with mechanic and ring me back.
A few days later the warranty book arrived in the post with a note saying they needed the car in for diagnosis.
It had already been in three times and no one called me back, so I assumed they didn't want to deal with me or the car.
While visiting family in Wales, I took the car to my brother who is a Mechanic, and a few moments on their Bosch diagnostics, it showed two faults. One being the EGR.
The EGR was replaced and what a difference! The change was noticeable straight away. It had got the the point were it was not smooth at roundabouts and junctions most of the time, and I had got used to it. But now the only lag is the turbo. Its almost a different car. Its wonderful.

I don't know why the Stealer's equipment could not diagnose that fault.
My brother has also said its the same EGR on the Landrover and Mondeo V6 Diesel, and they have TWO of them!
My car had only done about 17000 miles when it started. My brother had a Landrover in that had done 12000 and could be overtaken by a milkfloat such was the problem, two new EGRs and away it went.

My brother has said they have never has success cleaning Electro Mechanical EGR valves. Mechanicals are fine. And these ones are Electro Mechanical, so a new one was decided upon.
Thanks for listening to the ramble. Hope it helps.

Oh and the second fault was intermittent. It relates tot he cooling system. All C5s of this engine could have a problem with 3 relays controlling the cooling fan when the aircon is used. I've yet to look into this as the cooling fan works fine.

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 24 Nov 2010, 12:28

My problem came back. I've had the MAF replaced. I've had it serviced. Lexia does not show any faults that mean anything.
It worked best when the EGR was replaced but they cant really fail within a few weeks can they?

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 17 Mar 2011, 11:23

Still having problems.
I've had the MAF changed. I've had another EGR (number 3) as when testing the old one (don't know why I kept it) was definatly faulty. The 2nd died altogether once it had been cleaned. Now have the third on which is a different make.
Have had new fuel filter too.
The hesitation is not as bad so far (but that could be warmer weather).
If I accelerate after slowing down for a roundabout, the power delivery after around 2000 rpm is not smooth. But not every time.
Since the fuel filter was changed, normla driving seems smoother.
Anyone any ideas? No real faults on Lexia or generic code reader.
I wish I had bought the V6 petrol instead. No turbo and no EGR!

mrlogik · Unread post by **mrlogik** » 18 Mar 2011, 22:49

Its not your throttle peddle is it as i hear the electronic throttle peddles [fly by wire] can cause same sort of thing?

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 09 Apr 2011, 19:46

mrlogik wrote:Its not your throttle peddle is it as i hear the electronic throttle peddles [fly by wire] can cause same sort of thing?

Would it still be this even though the revs still increase? Its like there is not boost between 2000-3000 revs. Changing up a gear does not help, it seems to be a time thing, after a few seconds its fine.

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 10 Apr 2011, 22:08

If the EGR fails by staying shut then that may not be such a problem. If it stays open all the time then that is where you may get a problem with loss of boost at higher revs.

On the 2.2 Hdi the EGR should be de activated at around 2500 rpm which means it will be shut above this engine speed. I would suspect that it's the same or similar for the 1.6 Hdi and all diesels.

You could try blanking off the EGR pipe where it joins the inlet manold ( I'm not familiar with the layout of the 1.6 Hdi engine ) and see if there's an improvement. I would have thought that the worst fault with an EGR valve is if it stays open all the time so, blank it off yourself and see what happens.

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 10 Apr 2011, 22:41

Would the EGR valve not leave a fault in the logs? It has in the past when faulty. Its on its third one at the moment (I've had two put in since owning it) Logs are clear.
Is there something else that controls the EGR, like an electrovalve or something? I'm finding the Haynes manual and its black and white pictures difficult to work out.

If I spray the legendary Whynns EGR3 into the turbo intake, would that clean everything out?

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 11 Apr 2011, 19:04

It might do some cleaning out but I doubt it would resolve your problem

cachacieor

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 11 Apr 2011, 19:10

The EGR valve on the 1.6 Hdi is electrically controlled and so doesn't have any external device like a vacuum electrovalve to control it. An electrical multi plug plugs directly onto the EGR and the control motor is built in.

EGR3 spray may help if the EGR valves have been sooted up. If the valves have failed because of electrical faults then EGR3 spray won't help.

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 11 Apr 2011, 21:38

As has been discussed elsewhere it is worth bearing in mind that on a Euro IV system EGR is much more than "just" opening a valve to allow admission of exhaust gas into the inlet tract.
The EGR system influences turbo boost and the temperature of air actualy going into the inlet by bypassing the intercooler if required to get the temperature right. Blanking of the EGR inlet to the inlet manifold will stop exhaust gas getting into the engine, it won't stop the system from reducing turbo boost if that is what it does to meet some of the EGR inlet pressure requirements.

cachaciero

mooseshaver · Unread post by **mooseshaver** » 12 Apr 2011, 11:46

KevMayer wrote:
EGR3 spray may help if the EGR valves have been sooted up. If the valves have failed because of electrical faults then EGR3 spray won't help.

It has a new EGR in it, and the same fault, so probably not the EGRs themselves (apart from the original one) that are faulty.

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 12 Apr 2011, 19:34

I've been looking through my 'Citroen Service Backup Documentation' and the EGR valve on the 1.6 Hdi is in a system which incorporates electrovalves to control inlet air pressure and temperature.

Theres an assembly in the inlet ducting which has two electrovalves (one for hot air, which bypasses the intercooler, and one for cold air, which is hot air that has passed through the intercooler) and a temperature sensor and a pressure sensor. The turbo then has variable vane geometry to control boost pressure.

The EGR, hot air and cold air electrovalves can each be tested using a Lexia. Maybe you could contact a forum member close to you with a Lexia.

The system appears to be quite complex. The EGR valve itself has a motor and a sensor for position feedback. It doesn't simply open and close. It has a type of proportional control.

Maybe a battery disconnection for a while would reset all the position information and get the system back up and working.

French Car Forum

C5 1.6 Hdi

C5 1.6 Hdi

throttle

Re: throttle