V6 Activa.....

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jan 2010, 15:06

andmcit wrote:Crazy thought? How about just having a V6 AND an Activa? This works!
Oh hang on...

8)

Andrew

Yes, it does.. Very nicely

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 19 Jan 2010, 21:00

Jim, as far as the hub assemblies go, as my Activa is the later one with the Bosch brakes, I think the hub carriers are the same, so fitting larger V6 discs should not be a problem. I think the only difference in parts is the caliper carrier.

If you are right about the different size of the hub carriers and I need to use the V6 ones, I'll probably turn up some spilt sleeves to fill in the gap as I intend to use the Activa struts.

As David said, the gearbox is from the 406 and I assumed it was a ML5T, but with a slightly different shape around the bellhousing. The clutch was changed for a standard new unit, as I am not going to be doing anything too strenuous with the transmission. No quarter mile runs!

Why did you ask about the flywheel?

I have a brand new Activa pump bolted onto a prefabricated bracket bolted to the engine, so I can use the standard Activa rack, although, as you are aware, space between the engine and the bulkhead is at a premium and I may need to make up some heatshield to protect the rack. I am hoping it will all work, but if not, I'll have to graft on the V6 system. I need to contact Martin to make me up some special HP lines.

I am going to France in March so I will be able to check on some more details with my friend's V6 Activa.

This whole project is a real 'fit to see if it works' system, and much as I have a task list with specific parts and items, I reckon on being about half way done.

Once all the mechanicals are in place, I will then have to refit all the front end body panels as I removed them to ensure no damage and I have not even started on the interior, save for a new heater matrix. I'm still looking for a set of cream or tan leather seats for it, like my other Mk2 had.

I have been offered a 6 speed transmission from the last of the 406 coupes but I cannot foresee stripping it all out just for another cog.

As this project only gets done when time and money permit, I'll try and post up more information as it happens. At least the next one will be easier!

Handyman

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jan 2010, 21:10

Excellent stuff

handyman wrote: Why did you ask about the flywheel?

Only because I wondered if you were using an engine that originally had an autobox fitted. I forgot to ask the lads doing a 306 V6 conversion what flywheel they were using... On the auto, the torque converter is effectively the flywheel...

Yes, there is a massive heatshield over the steering rack and pinion valve on the V6. Shame, you're a day late. It went to the breakers with the old bodyshell otherwise you could have had it

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 19 Jan 2010, 21:32

Any thoughts on why Citroen decided to use a completely different steering system on the V6, rather than stay with the LHM powered model.

H

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jan 2010, 22:08

It's still LHM powered Handyman and very, very similar in form and function to the standard Xantia steering. The essential difference is in the pump and pressure regulator for the steering ram.

Standard Xantia HP pumps have the PAS pressure regulator built into the pump. On the V6 it's an external unit with a pressure switch signalling the engine ECU to up the idle on full-lock.

The rack looks identical but isn't.

My assumption again is that the PAS is more powerful on the V6 to cope with the combined weight of the engine and autobox. All-up weight is 260Kgs and that's a good bit more than a 2.0 CT and ML5! Even the suspension side of the HP pump on the V6 is more powerful as they don't half get pressure up quickly from cold. Struts are meatier too which may account for more pump output being required.

On that basis the lower weight of the manual box should not be a problem with the standard Activa set-up.

I wonder if manual and auto V6 406s have different spec. PAS pumps and racks? That, if it is the case, should prove the point. Also, if you can find the part numbers for the HP pump and rack on the manual LHD V6 Activa compared to an LHD auto V6 Xantia that might be revealing too...

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 19 Jan 2010, 22:28

For what it's worth the 406 Coupe never came with a 6 speed box.

The one that we have is one of the last being a 2003 model and it's still on the 5 speed box.

If it's anything like the 306 GTi6 you'll loose the steering lock. On the 306 to get the 6th gear in the box was bigger so the right lock became bloody awful!!

David.

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 25 Jan 2010, 21:45

Just seen an 1999 Activa V6, with manual gearbox, and all the bells and whistles, go through the Deutsche Ebay for...........................£607.13p.

I was sorely tempted, but it would take a lot of explaining to disappear for a few days and re-appear with another car!

Maybe they are losing their appeal across the Channel. Have not seen any cheapies in France though.

Handyman

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 25 Jan 2010, 22:33

Mind you it had done 140,000 miles, no leather/sunroof, not sure I'd be willing to pay that especially with the cost of the trip on top and getting the car registered over there prior to the trip home.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 25 Jan 2010, 22:35

Yes, but it did have an LHM leak on the rear and likely couldn't be driven
back under it's own steam. The fact it was 750 miles one way from me via
Eurotunnel was also a handicap. I reckon they'll still have high prices
- this is the bare minimum they'll sink to over there that's all!

Nice colour and a s1 too. 140 k miles though and it didn't have a sunroof...

Andrew

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 25 Jan 2010, 23:47

Granted it had all those faults, but looking on the positive side, it would be an easy donor for a RHD vehicle.
140K miles is not huge!

Handyman

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 26 Jan 2010, 00:04

I accept it's not like you'd have to worry about the autobox at that mileage.
Logistics ruled it out for me as a serious consideration. I accept that
trailering it back as unroadworthy 'spares' would probably even make life
easier as far as paperwork/legailty goes and I've done this with a Gs from
Nantes so the distance doesn't worry me so much as the damned efficiency
and fabled beurocracy of Germany!!

I'm sure towing it back with an Xm would have plenty of alarm bells
ringing somewhere or do I just sound neurotic?

On the balance of things as much as it pains me to admit this, I think
I'd rather have the hassles of getting another Gs for all the effort and
expense!! Or a needs work D, eh DickieG!?

In end, if it was the opportunity of a lifetime, one of us here would've
bought it!! Mind, I haven't heard from DavidH who was watching it too...

Andrew

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 Jan 2010, 00:23

There's a nice restorable ID19 in a mate's possession here, which is begging for the right person to wrest from his grasp. I've lusted after it since first sight.

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 26 Jan 2010, 08:07

Andrew, if I had the time and space, I would have gone over to get it, but as always, everything else gets in the way. I was tempted to go and get a cheap CX GTiT in Scotland, but held off for the same reasons.

As these cars, the Activas and V6s, are now becoming valueless and reaching rock bottom prices, the opportunities to rebuild and modify have never been better. You just need to get them before they end up in the scrapyards. Bureacratic paperwork and transporting distances are not insurmountable, if anything, I'd prefer travel to Germany than to Scotland! (Ducks down behind parapet to avoid incoming!

)

Addo, why bother with an ID, get a CX, like a D with all the problems ironed out and a much better car.

(Ducks down again, to avoid second lot of incoming!)

By the way, I've found a company that hires out beavertail recovery trucks with winches, under 3.5T so can be driven on a car licence, ideal for transporting non-runners. Much cheaper than towing a trailer and much less hassle.

Handyman

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 Jan 2010, 08:22

If I was loony enough to post a "CX Wanted for Nix" advert on AussieFrogs, I would have three or more offers within a week. Of cars, I mean.

The thought of dealing with dual aircon, decomposing doortrims and CX-Basis is enough to put me off.

Although, a Series I car would make an awesome rat rod.

Just that you couldn't use it in temperatures over 20°C!

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 26 Jan 2010, 09:48

I was watching the car and was sorely tempted to bid but the fact that it'd of needed trailer home started to make it very costsly for what was a high mileage example.

There was an immaculate one that I saw on ebay in france, silver series 2. Was totally mint, full leather the lot. 70k miles on a 1999.

It sold for €5000.

David.