Test driving an SX Xantia

[Dommo]

Thanks for that reply Citroenmad.

If we don't get a car within a week or so we'll be having a look at that C5 I'm sure, what are part prices like for them?


A bit of an update though, we went to view another red xantia today with apparantly 76k on the clock. The bodywork was absolutely sound with very little underbody rot on the suspension. There were a few things we found though that were a bit strange:

The height adjuster lever was quite stiff to pull up out of the service high and service low positions.

The stop light went out within a few seconds. We put the car on its lowest setting, waited 20 seconds or so, turned the engine off, waited another 20-30 seconds, then put the lever in the normal ride height position, turned the engine back on, and the stop light went out after probably 3 or 4 seconds. The car didn't reach its proper ride height for probably another 30 odd seconds.

When trying to make the suspension lower, from service high to normal ride height/service low, for example, it took a while before the back end started to drop, probably talking nearly a minute from service high to service low.

The brakes were quite juddery, as though you were presssing and releasing the pedal a bit, even though we were keeping the pedal under a constant pressure.

And I'm not sure I could hear the click from the regulator, but I think it's because I'm not 100% sure what I'm listening for. Does someone know of a video showing you what it sounds like over the sound of the rattley 1.9TD engine?

The ride wasn't that comfortable either, it was quiet and smooth but it felt more bouncey than a blue one we test drove a few days ago.

And the LHM level wasn't quite right, in service high the top hat thing was about 2-3mm below the bottom line on the guage.

The auxillary belt wasn't in good condition either, one of the ribs of the belt had been torn off, I had this problem on my 306 funnily enough, where one of the tensioners was (and still is ) wonky.

Could most of these issues be down to old knackered LHM?

Cheers for any help. Dom.

[mark21td]

No problem.

One upgrade you can do to the bosch pump is fit a ford transit piston setup as it's a bigger diameter, so you're basically increasing the displacement of the fuel pump

Have you done this yourself, if so can we have some more info
Which transit pump do you need ?
how much differance does it make ?
Is it bettor than just tuning the old one ?

I have converted the wife's 2.1 to bosch (1.9) and would like to increase the pump capasity to mach.

[deian]

Thanks for that reply Citroenmad.

If we don't get a car within a week or so we'll be having a look at that C5 I'm sure, what are part prices like for them?


A bit of an update though, we went to view another red xantia today with apparantly 76k on the clock. The bodywork was absolutely sound with very little underbody rot on the suspension. There were a few things we found though that were a bit strange:

The height adjuster lever was quite stiff to pull up out of the service high and service low positions.

The stop light went out within a few seconds. We put the car on its lowest setting, waited 20 seconds or so, turned the engine off, waited another 20-30 seconds, then put the lever in the normal ride height position, turned the engine back on, and the stop light went out after probably 3 or 4 seconds. The car didn't reach its proper ride height for probably another 30 odd seconds.

When trying to make the suspension lower, from service high to normal ride height/service low, for example, it took a while before the back end started to drop, probably talking nearly a minute from service high to service low.

The brakes were quite juddery, as though you were presssing and releasing the pedal a bit, even though we were keeping the pedal under a constant pressure.

And I'm not sure I could hear the click from the regulator, but I think it's because I'm not 100% sure what I'm listening for. Does someone know of a video showing you what it sounds like over the sound of the rattley 1.9TD engine?

The ride wasn't that comfortable either, it was quiet and smooth but it felt more bouncey than a blue one we test drove a few days ago.

And the LHM level wasn't quite right, in service high the top hat thing was about 2-3mm below the bottom line on the guage.

The auxillary belt wasn't in good condition either, one of the ribs of the belt had been torn off, I had this problem on my 306 funnily enough, where one of the tensioners was (and still is ) wonky.

Could most of these issues be down to old knackered LHM?

Cheers for any help. Dom.

sounds like the accumulator sphere is old and has leaked all it's nitrogen into the system, but the lights go off quick? so maybe not, but change it as a precaution

front will sink before the back as it's heavier

could do with new lhm (and cleaning lhm first) and a good bleed including the brake lines, sounds like there is air in the brake lines if the pedal feels funny, air in the whole system would make the suspension feel crashy too on, but still hold the air/hydraulic suspension characteristic of wallowing about nicely on flat surfaces

the ticking should sound like a loud tick (as you would expect from an old fashioned wind up alarm clock).

lhm level in the reservoir will be lower when you have the car in a higher position, the level should be at the lowest mark with the car on it's highest setting, but if it is too low, it should say STOP on the dash, so it's not the cause of the problems as such.

Did you see what state the colour of the lhm was, shove your finger into the resevoir and make a personal judgement, it should be the same colour as slimer off of ghostbusters

[Dommo]

Thanks for that reply Citroenmad.

If we don't get a car within a week or so we'll be having a look at that C5 I'm sure, what are part prices like for them?


A bit of an update though, we went to view another red xantia today with apparantly 76k on the clock. The bodywork was absolutely sound with very little underbody rot on the suspension. There were a few things we found though that were a bit strange:

The height adjuster lever was quite stiff to pull up out of the service high and service low positions.

The stop light went out within a few seconds. We put the car on its lowest setting, waited 20 seconds or so, turned the engine off, waited another 20-30 seconds, then put the lever in the normal ride height position, turned the engine back on, and the stop light went out after probably 3 or 4 seconds. The car didn't reach its proper ride height for probably another 30 odd seconds.

When trying to make the suspension lower, from service high to normal ride height/service low, for example, it took a while before the back end started to drop, probably talking nearly a minute from service high to service low.

The brakes were quite juddery, as though you were presssing and releasing the pedal a bit, even though we were keeping the pedal under a constant pressure.

And I'm not sure I could hear the click from the regulator, but I think it's because I'm not 100% sure what I'm listening for. Does someone know of a video showing you what it sounds like over the sound of the rattley 1.9TD engine?

The ride wasn't that comfortable either, it was quiet and smooth but it felt more bouncey than a blue one we test drove a few days ago.

And the LHM level wasn't quite right, in service high the top hat thing was about 2-3mm below the bottom line on the guage.

The auxillary belt wasn't in good condition either, one of the ribs of the belt had been torn off, I had this problem on my 306 funnily enough, where one of the tensioners was (and still is ) wonky.

Could most of these issues be down to old knackered LHM?

Cheers for any help. Dom.

sounds like the accumulator sphere is old and has leaked all it's nitrogen into the system, but the lights go off quick? so maybe not, but change it as a precaution That's what we thought, but it seemed weird how the stop light went out long before the whole system raised to driving position

front will sink before the back as it's heavier Granted that's the case, but should it really take a minute or so before the back end lowers? The blue one we saw the other day felt much more comfortable over bumps and lowered quicker, is it just a sign that the anti sink sphere works better in this one?

could do with new lhm (and cleaning lhm first) and a good bleed including the brake lines, sounds like there is air in the brake lines if the pedal feels funny, air in the whole system would make the suspension feel crashy too on, but still hold the air/hydraulic suspension characteristic of wallowing about nicely on flat surfaces I did wonder if just a fluid clean and bleed is what was required but I didn't know whether that would cause all of the things we noticed

the ticking should sound like a loud tick (as you would expect from an old fashioned wind up alarm clock). Could it be possible that the system was constantly ticking? And so I would have just assumed that was it's normal running sound?

lhm level in the reservoir will be lower when you have the car in a higher position, the level should be at the lowest mark with the car on it's highest setting, but if it is too low, it should say STOP on the dash, so it's not the cause of the problems as such. I did open the reservoir when the suspension was at its highest setting and I could see something inside the reservoir, like the bottom of the reservoir or a guage sender of some sort. Basically I dont think it was full enough to reach with my finger, how close to the lid should it be on its highest setting?

Did you see what state the colour of the lhm was, shove your finger into the resevoir and make a personal judgement, it should be the same colour as slimer off of ghostbusters

Thanks!

[Dommo]

No problem.

One upgrade you can do to the bosch pump is fit a ford transit piston setup as it's a bigger diameter, so you're basically increasing the displacement of the fuel pump

Have you done this yourself, if so can we have some more info
Which transit pump do you need ?
how much differance does it make ?
Is it bettor than just tuning the old one ?

I have converted the wife's 2.1 to bosch (1.9) and would like to increase the pump capasity to mach.

I'll put you in touch with someone on pug306.net who has done the conversion a few times, I've not done it personally.


Edit - I've PM'd him for his email address and I'll get back to you when he responds, cheers.

[mark21td]

Thanks Dommo.

[Dommo]

Message sent Mark. Cheers.

[Sl4yer]

That's what we thought, but it seemed weird how the stop light went out long before the whole system raised to driving position.

The STOP light, from a hydraulic point of view, is concerned with brake pressure and fluid level. So it will go out before the car rises (as soon as there is sufficient pressure to operate the brakes). Nothing too much to worry about there, although the STOP light going out in 3-4 seconds from low to normal seems too quick, assuming everything was allowed to settle in the low position.

James

[Dommo]

That's what we thought, but it seemed weird how the stop light went out long before the whole system raised to driving position.

The STOP light, from a hydraulic point of view, is concerned with brake pressure and fluid level. So it will go out before the car rises (as soon as there is sufficient pressure to operate the brakes). Nothing too much to worry about there, although the STOP light going out in 3-4 seconds from low to normal seems too quick, assuming everything was allowed to settle in the low position.

James

I thoguht that was a possibility, but if that was the case then why would the Xantia on youtube (under the frenchcarforum user name) have its stop light lit when the suspension is raising up to the correct height?

Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywvLaWTr9yw

Thanks.

[Sl4yer]

I thoguht that was a possibility, but if that was the case then why would the Xantia on youtube (under the frenchcarforum user name) have its stop light lit when the suspension is raising up to the correct height?

Just watched that (again, I have seen it before ) and it only appears to rise after the STOP light goes out.

I wish the Activa responded as quickly as that!

James

[Dommo]

I thoguht that was a possibility, but if that was the case then why would the Xantia on youtube (under the frenchcarforum user name) have its stop light lit when the suspension is raising up to the correct height?

Just watched that (again, I have seen it before ) and it only appears to rise after the STOP light goes out.

I wish the Activa responded as quickly as that!

James

I wasn't sure if it was the way the video was edited, it could have raised up, the light gone out, then shown an outside shot to show what the suspension does.

Maybe someone else with a normal working hydropneumatic Xantia could confirm what the light does?

[Xaccers]

sounds like rear height corrector could also do with a clean and lube.

[Citroenmad]

Parts prices are reasonable for C5s really, service parts are cheap and they are very easy to service yourself. Cambelts are due every 100K or 10 years, actually i think the later engines, 1.6HDi and 2.0HDi 16v are 150K! But thats way too many for comfort in my opinion.

Tyres are on the pricier side for these, around £140 each for michies, but not too bad and not something you buy every month anyway.

That Xantia sounds a little uncared for in the suspension department, however not too bad. The stiff height lever will just be a lack of lubrication, as not many people grease it and not many people use it at all, so it can get stiff. Be careful as i have known the height adjuster lever plastic break off when the movement becomes stiff.

Stop light will go out before it has reached normal, as its concerned with pressure in the system, if its rising there will be pressure, so thats fine. Sounds like its lifting up reasonably quickly, though height correctors could be lacking lubrication if it seems slow to rise or fall at other times.

The brakes are more than likely warped/distorted brake discs, they might be in bad condition and need replacing. Its easy to get a distorted disc, especially if a brake is rubbing, which is easily done on them, especially as the handbrake works the fronts.

A bad ride will be the spheres getting low on gas, i take it this was a anti-sink car? So you will have 6 spheres on that, when getting a hydraulic citroen i always pressure test the spheres, normally you find they need replacing or regassing if you can get that done. The price of genuine citroen spheres from citroen seems to have shot up.

Old LHM could make things slower, but it wont have a drastic effect on the ride wuality, that will be down to old spheres.

Oh, if you get a C5, dont expect to have to do anything with the spheres, they seem to last an age, ive never had to replace any.

Chris.

[Citroenmad]

I thoguht that was a possibility, but if that was the case then why would the Xantia on youtube (under the frenchcarforum user name) have its stop light lit when the suspension is raising up to the correct height?

Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywvLaWTr9yw

Thanks.

Kevs cars just seems to take a little while to build pressure, when the light goes out it starts to rise. Thats quite normal, there should be quite a wait when in fully low and allowed to depressureise before it builds pressure. I find cars without antisink rise faster than cars with.

at the comment on youtube about the wheels hitting the bodywork in low position, erm no they dont!

Thats not the reason you dont drive a hydraulic citroen in low, the fact it has very limited brakes is the reason Which is why you should not tow a broken down citroen. They have brakes in high, but there is no suspension movement and only has the tyres for any springing. Driving in the intermediate height is fine. Though i often find some cars like to go very hear high in the intermediate setting.

Mind ive been in Xantias with flat spheres, just bouncing along on the tyres when going to collect them to fit new spheres. How people drive cars like that ive no idea, they must think Citroens are rubbish, but its just they are not always looked after. Ive know them to crack windscreens due to no suspension movement.

[Dommo]

Parts prices are reasonable for C5s really, service parts are cheap and they are very easy to service yourself. Cambelts are due every 100K or 10 years, actually i think the later engines, 1.6HDi and 2.0HDi 16v are 150K! But thats way too many for comfort in my opinion. They've certainly got their suspension system fairly sorted these days by the sounds of things, are they as comfy as a hydropneumatic Xantia?

Tyres are on the pricier side for these, around £140 each for michies, but not too bad and not something you buy every month anyway.

That Xantia sounds a little uncared for in the suspension department, however not too bad. The stiff height lever will just be a lack of lubrication, as not many people grease it and not many people use it at all, so it can get stiff. Be careful as i have known the height adjuster lever plastic break off when the movement becomes stiff. If that's the case it's worth buying on the bodywork alone in my opinion, and hopefully replacing all the spheres will sort it

Stop light will go out before it has reached normal, as its concerned with pressure in the system, if its rising there will be pressure, so thats fine. Sounds like its lifting up reasonably quickly, though height correctors could be lacking lubrication if it seems slow to rise or fall at other times. Is that definately how it's supposed to work? The one in that video seems to make more sense how it says STOP for ages before it goes out when going from service low to normal running position. The stop light on the one we saw yesterday didnt come on when we moved the lever from service low to normal running height, like it does on that video

The brakes are more than likely warped/distorted brake discs, they might be in bad condition and need replacing. Its easy to get a distorted disc, especially if a brake is rubbing, which is easily done on them, especially as the handbrake works the fronts. We thought that but the on-off feeling of the brakes was far too slow to be warped discs, my 306 has had warped discs in the past so I know how what it feels like

A bad ride will be the spheres getting low on gas, i take it this was a anti-sink car? So you will have 6 spheres on that, when getting a hydraulic citroen i always pressure test the spheres, normally you find they need replacing or regassing if you can get that done. The price of genuine citroen spheres from citroen seems to have shot up. It is an anti-sink car yeah, we'd probably change all the spheres out of anal-ness anyway What equipment do you need to regas them?

Old LHM could make things slower, but it wont have a drastic effect on the ride wuality, that will be down to old spheres.

Oh, if you get a C5, dont expect to have to do anything with the spheres, they seem to last an age, ive never had to replace any.

Chris.

Cheers Chris.