Test driving an SX Xantia

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:03

Hi folks

I just went to view and test drive a V reg 1.9TD SX and have a few questions.

How long should the STOP light stay on for when you first turn it on? And if it stays on for a while (about a minute, it went off after it was revved a bit, but I'm not sure if the revving is what helped it or just the length of time it took while it was being revved) what is likely to be the issue? I know the two top front strut spheres have been replaced in the last few days but I'm unsure about the rest of them. Am I right in thinking there are just 5 spheres on a non hydractive Xantia? 2 on the strut tops, one by each rear shock, and one on the regulator? Is LHM around the lid on the top of the LHM reservoir likely to be spillage when topping it up or a leak?

I have read that you should be able to hear the regulator letting pressure into the system every so often, what's a decent length of time between the noises? And what does the noise sound like? With a rattley ass 1.9TD engine are you best listening for the regulator with the bonnet up or down?

Thanks for any help folks, I'll probably add to this when I think of something else to ask.

Dom.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:35

V reg SX will have 6 spheres, the ones you mentioned and the rear accumulator, known as the anti-sink sphere.

LHM on the top of the resevoir is normal spillage, unless you're Vince, then your resevoir is kept spotless and shiny at all times

If the car hasn't been run for a while, then it can take up to a minute for the STOP! light to go out as all the spheres are pressurised.
Was the ride comfortable?

The regulator makes a ticking noise, less than a minute between ticks normally means its new accumulator time.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:36

Hi Dom

1.9td? Are you certain, was it not the newer HDi engine? You can tell be the covers on them...

Anyway, the lights on a GOOD working system should go out within seconds of starting the engine, however, if the car needed pumpin up a bit that can take a bit more time to pressure up.. rear spheres should be nice and soft, you should ba able to press the rear down a good few millimeters!!

My Mums Xantia HDi on a T plate was dooing this, STOP light staying on for a while, but it ALSO affected her steering, as it was dragging air in through a split feed pipe on the Suspension Pump, not always visable while connected, and needs disconnecting to be examined.. its the middle rubber hose on the pump, two metal pipes, one rubber, thats the main feed..

Theres 5 main spheres, but theres a 6th sphere at the rear middle used for the "Anti Sink" circuit, its purpose to help prevent the car from sinking to the floor with the engine stopped, and doesn't actually affect the ride

The LHM on the lid could be a top up spill, but a system with NO Leaks should NOT need topping up, so its more likely to be a weep from one of the smaller return pipes connected to the top of the tank, NOTHING much at all to worry about!

You need to listen for the regulator emmitting a CLICK or TICK... I find the best way is to put the syspension on top setting, as its settles at top setting if the Regulator "Accumilator" sphere is low, the regulator WILL tick a lot..

ANOTHER tip, which DOES Work with the car in NORMAL setting, stop the engine after the STOP light is out, then move the height lever to the rear WITH THE ENGINE off, if theres any life left in the Reg Sphere, the car WILL rise up a little...

Regards
Paul

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Dec 2009, 18:51

Thats brilliant thanks.

Xac it had been standing for over a week, the battery was flat so that could be it. I'll have to check it over again if we go back tomorrow to see how long it takes to extinguish.

At the worst what's likely to be wrong, just the regulator sphere, or possibly even the regulator (is the regulator the hydraulic pump?)? If it's the regulator how much are they to replace? But then again I'm fairly sure the pump is ok because the suspension rises up relatively quickly.

Paul - it was definately a 1.9 as my 306 has the same engine, it's got a Bosch pump as well which is awesome, I was surprised myself about it being in a V reg car. It was registered on the 28th december 1999. So if it ticks more often than it should is that just a sign the sphere needs replacing or the pump thing itself?

Oh that's another thing, how long should it take before hot air comes out through the vents? Is the heater matrix set up so that no hot air comes out until the engine is nearly up to temperature as that's what seemed to happen today.

Cheers folks, Dom

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 22 Dec 2009, 19:00

Ahhhh... now then.. the heater WILL give you tell tail signs to head gasket condition..

My Xantia 1.9 td SX, 1994, with 219k has warm air starting to come through when the needle is just BELOW the 60, then starts getting better above the 60... the standard temperture sitting should be between 75 and 80 deg ON THE GUAGE...

If the air is still not very warm with the needle is showing 80, it can be one of two things, the heater flap for hot/cold air is sticking or NOT enough hot water is passing through the matrix.. you can test this under the bonnet on the matrix hoses, theres a bleed cap, as per 306 setup... open the cap when the engine is COLD and see how much water is pumping out of it.. if there NO WATER while the engine is idleing, it CAN be a bad sign, if you have to rev the engine to get any water to eject out, then it points towards Head Gasket..

Water pours out of my bleed when I open it with the engine idleing..

The Pump or regulator shouldn't be at fault, at worse she may very well be dragging a weep of air...

Paul

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Dec 2009, 19:21

Ahhh, the HG could be an issue then. As it happens the bloke revved the knackers off it (which was good of him) and the heaters started working after about 20-30 seconds of him revving it the whole time, whether that was just caused by the engine creating a lot of heat or it self bleeding I'm not sure. We'll have to do the bleed valve test tomorrow, and check the oil and coolant condition.

We'll also need to check the temperature guage when moving but from what I remember it didnt just get to a point and stay there.

And we'll need to check the regulator tick too. If it ticks within a minute when fully raised is that likely to be really bad or would I need to change the accumulator sphere (which is cheap enough)? And I assume finding a leaking pipe is a 'mare?

Cheers.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 22 Dec 2009, 20:35

Leaking pipe, no not at all, as said above, if its been sat a lot then it will be slow. Observe tomorrow any differences and see..

Dont be too quick to assume head gasket, I sugest the strngest test, the blower WONT BLOW untill the engine has ran for a moment and the altinator voltage output rises to a certain level... to protect the battery..

Whats the milage of the car in question, by the way?

Paul

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Dec 2009, 20:54

citroenxm wrote:Leaking pipe, no not at all, as said above, if its been sat a lot then it will be slow. Observe tomorrow any differences and see..

Dont be too quick to assume head gasket, I sugest the strngest test, the blower WONT BLOW untill the engine has ran for a moment and the altinator voltage output rises to a certain level... to protect the battery..

Whats the milage of the car in question, by the way?

Paul

Fine. I will check how long it takes to go out tomorrow. By the way, when it's getting up to pressure the stop light flickers like hell for a couple of seconds then goes out, to the point where it looks like a poor earth but I'm fairly sure it's not a bad earth. Does that sound like a known problem and if so do we know why it does it?

Sorry for being thick but what's the strngest test? The blower motors did blow but the air was really cold until he revved the tits off it and then they were warm and stayed warm for the rest of the test drive, although my dad reckoned the blowers weren't that hot considering it was on full hot. But it seemed ok to me.

The car's got 108,000 on it.

Cheers for the help.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 22 Dec 2009, 21:02

The water comming from the Bleed valve is the "Best" test for how good it is flowing through the Matrix..

Allsuming all heater flaps in the heater unit are working correctly, a Xantia Heater should be VERY VERY good and hot...

The Flickering is an indication of VERY SLOW to get the system to pressure.. useually with having air in the system.

From the few jobs needed, and the age of the car, it will need to be a bargain, not necceraaly for the cost of fixing her up, but the amount of work to do, which with us on here would be able to help you..

A price on the car? In my opinion, £500 MAX!! NO MORE..

Some may think Ive still over valued her..

Paul

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 22 Dec 2009, 21:15

yea, £500 sounds bout right for that mileage, i've noticed most tend to go for about that prices regardless of age

agree on the heater too, mine is warm after just a mile of town driving, and gets hot after speedier drivng of 3 miles, after about 8 miles it can get uncomfortably warm in the cabin with the heater on position number 2, considering diesels are supposed to run cooler and warm up slower my xantia is spot on and i would assume a good xantia should be the same

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 Dec 2009, 21:29

How would I go about bleeding the hydraulic system? I assume there's a good guide on here somewhere. Is it possible to bleed it as easily as say a normal PAS pump, ie, steering right to left and back to right etc.

I assumed the flickering was to do with it being slow at getting up to pressure.

Cheers for the help, it's much appreciated.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 22 Dec 2009, 21:56

Ive talked else were about bleeding the system..

citroenxm wrote:Yea thats COMPLETELY normal operation for the red lights, they will always be on after ignition is switched off..

Under the bonnet, the regulator unit is bolted to the gearbox, its slightly hidden under the two Plastic Air pipes that goto the front of the engine bay to the intercooler, and has a green sphere screwed into it, on the front of it theres two 11mm studs that hold it to the gearbox, and a 12mm NUT, its the 12mm nut you need..

Inside the car, theres the height lever next to the gear lever, start the car, then lift the lever and slide it all the way FORWARDS to the lowest position.. let the car sink to the floor and leve it running for a minute.. then with the engine running locate the 12mm nut on the regulator and undo it by about a turn and a half... let the system depressurise, the STOP light and ! light should be on now... leave the engine run for a min or two.. stop the engine..

Inspect the MAIN Rubber feed pipe to the pump, you'll have Air Con, so the Main pump is ABOVE the altinator and easy to get too, as I said above take the pipe off and see if its split and letting air in, as they split here on the pump..

If split, cut it back a bit and re fit it, start the engine first let it run a moment, and re tighten the 12mm nut on the regulator unit... then move the lever in the car to the middle position.. let the car come up give it a moment or two.

If the rear has trouble comming up, then you have sticky levers that control the rear height control unit.. but thats another learning lesson. Lets get the brakes and PAS working..

Goood luck
Paul

Thats basically the way to bleed the system..

Paul

VertVega · Unread post by **VertVega** » 22 Dec 2009, 21:56

There's a very good thread up there in the "sticky" section.
--> Sticky: Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding

Dirty LHM and filters could also cause longer STOP light.

KP · Unread post by KP » 22 Dec 2009, 22:20

I've had a v plate 1.9td.

the worst bit was that it seemded to suffer from being ragged in its past life and very little care. the door hingers are a major PITA as they seem to fall off on most from the door themselves they rust outward!

Next make sure there is some evidence of oil changes.

if there is no undertray for example there is a bargaining point as most are often missing thesedays

check the tyres all match or at least have the same wear level.

Check the passenger airbag disbaling switch works. this is done next to the handbrake with the ignition key.

If she idles lumpily its often the fuel filter, in tank filter or air ingress(in that order from my ones).

on a test drive if the front rattle's a bit over light bumps then one or both front drop links need replacing. not a big job but again a PITA as the rust on the nuts causes them to be a pain

Also make sure the AC kicks in and out when used. engine may have to be warm for this as i think its set not to come into affect below about 2'C...

Unread post by **Dommo** » 23 Dec 2009, 10:05

All those problems seem easy enough to repair, drop links, tyres and fuel filters for example.

I'm looking out for one of these cars for my dad but he may swap with me and have my 306.

Now we're looking for a low milage, silver or blue, decent spec (SX, VSX, or Exclusive) 1.9TD, common as muck right?

Any suggestions on where to look for one, tried eBay, Pistonheads and t'autotrader which came up with not a lot.

I get the feeling finding one would take a while. Cheers.