The Best Advert for ABS

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 18 Dec 2009, 20:40

Oh Christ what a day I've had.

So I was going from Ashford to Maidstone on the M20 at 2ish today. For the first few miles the snow had melted; the roads were a bit greasy, but driveable.
Then some miles down the road, a huge snowstorm brewed up. The road was suddenly covered in ice and visability was very low.
Wasn't going particularly fast (60mph approx, keeping to the speed of the traffic) and I was leaving a wide gap between myself and the cars in front.

Then suddenly brake lights in front.

Car went into a slide; engine stalled, no steering or brake response. Managed avoiding going into the back of the car ahead by wedging myself between the car in front of me and the artic next to me.
I estimate the relative speed of impact was about 20mph, so not very fast.

The car drove off, the lorrey stopped and took my details.
Damage to the lorrey was almost nonexistant, I took off a side light. Hopefully they'll let me pay for repairs.

My car looked fine to start with, although the passenger side wing mirror had vanished in the collision, lens for the side repeater broken off and the mudguard had been dislodged.
Tried to drive off but the steering was all over the place, stopped again and looked at the passenger side road wheel, it was totally pissed.

So lower arm/track rod/both bent out. Somehow managed to limp the remaining 10 miles to my dad's place in Maidstone.

Really hoping they don't want to claim on my insurance. £500 excess, car written off automatically and two years' no claims down the pan.
Wouldn't be any point in repairing the car if that happens.

So things added to my "to do" list:
-Play spot the difference with my suspension arms
-Get a lower arm assembly, probably from a breakers' yard
-Fix it
-Get better tyres

Anyone know how tricky it'd be to retrofit an ABS system? Giving it serious thoughts

-Alex

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 18 Dec 2009, 20:55

Daammm bad one, that is bad news! Is this a ZX?

Ummmm... ABS ...

Tricky!

Lots of re routing pipe work.. Replacemt Hubs and rear beam for the ABS sesnor "Homes", the wrieing itself is not that bad, but quite a bit to add again..

Easyest, get one with ABS... :-/

Paul

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 18 Dec 2009, 20:56

Are your tyres any good?!

Seriously, ABS won't help you if there's no grip between tyre and road. Sounds like you were leaving a big gap to allow for the conditions. But how many of us really know exactly what the surface underneath us is capable of?

Good luck with the repairs!

James

boristhespie · Unread post by **boristhespie** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:01

Dreading the long journey from North of Scotland to Portsmouth to south of France. Apparently it's bad there too.

Roads here are usually okay, Councils actually do something about it up here so hoping that your way is clear tonight and tomorrow morning.

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:05

The tyres...not so good.

You know the usual rule: if you don't recognise the brand, they're crap?
That describes them pretty well.

Ah well, the near side tyre is nicely balded on one side due to being dragged at a funny angle most of the way down the M20. It's a good excuse to get some better ones.

ABS fitting looks like too much of a pain in the arse to be worth it (having checked the Book of Lies to see how the system looks).

Ah well, no word from the truck company yet, hopefully they'll let me pay for the damages.

Happy Christmas and all that

-Alex

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:06

60 is those conditions was too fast , the only way to drive in those conditions is by anticipating the worst and driving appropriately.

Retro fitting ABS would be a dog of a job and may have legal implications regarding insurance and MOT.

Can say that ABS saved my life about 4 or 5 months ago. Was driving on at night on a dual carriageway at about 75 and suddenly realised there was a motorhome heading directly for me on my side of the road !! I'd just overtaken some cars but had to brake harder than I can ever remember to avoid this mentalist. I could not have pushed the brake pedal any harder and swerved simultaneously. Missed it by a few feet and the Xantia barely twitched !! No wheel lock up or sliding. I almost found religion and the Xantia has my utmost respect.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:08

Chlorate wrote:The tyres...not so good.

You know the usual rule: if you don't recognise the brand, they're crap?
That describes them pretty well.

Ah well, the near side tyre is nicely balded on one side due to being dragged at a funny angle most of the way down the M20. It's a good excuse to get some better ones.

ABS fitting looks like too much of a pain in the arse to be worth it (having checked the Book of Lies to see how the system looks).

Ah well, no word from the truck company yet, hopefully they'll let me pay for the damages.

Happy Christmas and all that

-Alex

Get a Xantia SX or VSX, both have the ABS as standard!

Paul

Chlorate · Unread post by **Chlorate** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:08

The conditions changed very suddenly, everyone else was driving at the same speed before suddenly deciding to slow down.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 18 Dec 2009, 21:13

boristhespie wrote:Dreading the long journey from North of Scotland to Portsmouth to south of France. Apparently it's bad there too.

Funnily enough I had an email from the chap I bought my DS from this morning who lives in the Limousin, apparently they had a 2" fall last night but the roads are cleared much quicker in France.

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 19 Dec 2009, 09:17

On ice and snow, ABS actually increases your stopping distance!

Ben

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 19 Dec 2009, 10:10

Not unless you know how to cadency brake.

Unread post by **RichardW** » 19 Dec 2009, 10:58

Real reason for ABS: Designed to allow you to steer whilst braking hard (enough to lock the wheels up)

Common misconceptions:
It improves stopping distances (it doesn't, in may well INCREASE the stopping distance)
I've got ABS, I'm invincible (no you're not!)
I've got ABS, I can defy the laws of Physics (no you can't)

Common problems:
Jam on brakes, panic, hit whatever it was you could have steered around with the ABS operational
Jam on the brakes, be surprised when ABS kicks the pedal back at you, and lift off - sail into what ever it was you might have avoided with a conventional braking system / if you knew what the ABS was supposed to be doing (hence the need for the intrusive 'Brake assist' systems...!)
ABS useless in the snow - sometimes in snow it is better to allow the wheels to lock and build up a snow wedge.

In this case, ABS wouldn't have saved Chlorate - he would still have piled into the lorry, probably with the ABS merrily banging away! Bad luck mate - stopping distance at 60 on snow / ice - oohh, a mile or so.....

You can fix your own car, your insurance will just pay out for the damage to the truck if they decide to claim off you - if you're not making a claim, you shouldn't have to pay the excess, but the premium might go up, and you willl lose the NCD next year.

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 19 Dec 2009, 11:13

For the average driver ABS is better than standard brakes because most people panic in an emergency. With standard brakes the wheels will lock , then car slides out of control into obstacle , game over.
With ABS , it may extend the braking distance over what an expert driver could achieve in the same situation , but they will be going slower when they hit or it may be just enough to avoid it. In snow I use the ABS to feel the conditions and it does help.
When I had my little adventure above I did notice there was NO pedal hammer or vibration , just no wheel locking. I consider my driving skills above average as I have a little competition experience and alot of years and road mileage under my belt , but ABS saved my life or at the very least serious injury on that occasion.

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 19 Dec 2009, 11:16

RichardW wrote:Real reason for ABS: Designed to allow you to steer whilst braking hard (enough to lock the wheels up)

Common misconceptions:
It improves stopping distances (it doesn't, in may well INCREASE the stopping distance)
r.

Could you give us a citation for that statement? given that a well designed ABS system is little different to that fitted to aircraft where they definitely reduce stopping distance.

Cachaciero

evilally · Unread post by **evilally** » 19 Dec 2009, 11:25

Sorry to hear that mate

2 things I can suggest...

Get some better tyres. I took the cheap ones off the 405 and fitted new Toyo Proxes all round. It's transformed the car.

Get down to a skidpan (or even a trackday) and get some lessons in handling a car. When I was on said crap tyres, I had the 405 in a slide round a high speed corner on a greasy b road. Could have been a scary situation, but I recovered very easily because I'd done it a million times before in a safe environment

If I think what I would have done before I got any tuition, I'm sure I would have been in the ditch. Money well spent, and it's something you can take to your next car.

At the end of the day though the laws of physics apply and at this time of year we need to slow down a bit and keep our distance more.