All I want for Xmas is... a reliable clutch ;-)

GB · Unread post by GB » 05 Dec 2009, 00:35

I've noticed that the clutch on my 54-reg C5 2.0HDI is slipping (total mileage: 53K miles) - not very much, but definitely noticeable when accelerating hard-ish in 3rd and 4th gears just above 2000rpm.

According to some internet forums (and What Car magazine), this seems to be a common fault with 2.0 HDI powered cars.

Anyone else had any experience with this problem?

What sort of reliability can I expect from my car now? Can I drive it for another 10K miles (including a 110mph cruise to and from Berlin, approx 1200 miles) without any serious issues? Or should I expect the clutch to disintegrate/explode sooner?

MrClutch website is quoting £319 for a replacement clutch, but then the quote is also saying that "Some vehicles may require the concentric slave cylinder and dual mass flywheel to be replaced at the same time as the clutch." Should I expect to fork out more dough for the flywheel then?

Cheers,
GB

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 05 Dec 2009, 10:18

Apparently, you can "Down Spec" the Dual Mass to an Ordinary Flywheel, as Im sure someone on here has already done it..

I cant help you much more, as Im more Xantia and XM then C5, I would have thought the Xantia HDi 110 clutch would be the same, which you can get from GSF for about 140 quid or so now...

Regards
Paul

Pleiades · Unread post by **Pleiades** » 05 Dec 2009, 10:44

I had some paperwork through from Valeo the other day and it states that they are now supplying a DMF conversion. This kit is a complete clutch kit as per normal but has the benifit of also including a new flywheel, the flywheel is built to do away the the "orrible" dual mass flywheel and the unreliability that comes with it, all of the dual mass benifits are still there as they are in the clutch itself, so next time it goes, the flywheel stays put and it's just a clutch change.

Sorry for the ramble but as I have not seen one of these kits yet, it is difficult to explain it.

Regards
Martin.

flying clutchman · Unread post by **flying clutchman** » 06 Dec 2009, 17:05

Valeo make these replacement kits for a lot of vehicles now and often work out cheaper than clutch kit + DMF. I've not fitted one to a C5 yet but have used them with no problems on Ford Transits, BMW 3s, Lagunas and various others. Sometimes DMFs can even give the impression of clutch slip as they have a built in fail-safe if excessive torque is applied.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 06 Dec 2009, 20:32

Im asuming your 54reg C5 is a facelift version? Therefore its a 2.0HDi 16v 138 engine, which is totally different to the earlier 8v 110 2.0HDi.

It could be the dual mass flywheel which is giving up, though thats quite low mileage. If it is that it will be an expensive replacement. If its not the DMF then its down to friction plate wear, which is down to driving style.

Kowalski · Unread post by **Kowalski** » 07 Dec 2009, 09:07

Pleiades wrote:all of the dual mass benifits are still there as they are in the clutch itself, so next time it goes, the flywheel stays put and it's just a clutch change.

The benefits are most certainly not all there, you lose the dual mass flywheel and the damping that it brings. There is also the issue that when you come to have to replace the clutch at a later date you can't just buy the friction plate, you have to buy the full kit with replacement flywheel.

Does replacing the dual mass flywheel with a solid flywheel have any long term effects on the longevity of the engine or drivetrain? LUK (manufacturer of dual mass flywheels) says your engine and gearbox won't last as long. Valeo (maker of solid flywheel retrofit kits) says it won't. Which do you believe when they clearly both have an interest in their own side of the argument?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 07 Dec 2009, 10:06

They've NEVER hurt older cars!! The HDi's in the Xantias dont have them!

I think its all down to how you use your clutch! If your agressive then it wont live long, if your carefull then it should!

Theres no need for this duel mass rubish, certainly if its not as long lived as a standard clutch...
Why should it harm an engine!

Paul

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 07 Dec 2009, 10:18

The benfits or otherwise of DMF's was discussed here

GB · Unread post by GB » 07 Dec 2009, 11:07

flying clutchman wrote:Sometimes DMFs can even give the impression of clutch slip as they have a built in fail-safe if excessive torque is applied.

Well, I hope that is the case.

For the past two days there were no signs of clutch slip at all. I've noticed that it happens only very early in the morning and late at night when the temperature drops to below 5 - I find this really strange and not sure what to make of it.

I think I'll just ignore this problem for now until it gets more noticeable - at the moment the clutch slip only happens when I really give the car some berries (just love that low end torque).

Cheers,
GB

GB · Unread post by GB » 07 Dec 2009, 11:36

Citroenmad wrote:Im asuming your 54reg C5 is a facelift version? Therefore its a 2.0HDi 16v 138 engine, which is totally different to the earlier 8v 110 2.0HDi.

Yes, it is the facelifted version, with all pre-facelift problems ironed out.

Cheers,
GB

flying clutchman · Unread post by **flying clutchman** » 07 Dec 2009, 20:54

When a valeo solid flywheel kit is fitted the clutch plate in the kit is modified for extra 'give'. When this wears out a new replacement clutch kit IS available, without the flywheel. These have proved very reliable and cost effective on Ford Transits, where the DMFs proved to be very problematic.

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 07 Dec 2009, 22:49

DMF's must be the most unnecessary development ever devised for an internal combustion engine !! They cause more problems than they solve and the customer ends up with the bill !! Problem is , there are lots of these technology bombs now waiting dormant in the newer generations of cars which will ultimately write them off prematurely because repairing the consequences will cost more than the car is worth. Like headlamp bulbs that take 5 hours to fit by a dealer , multiplex wiring systems , chipped electrical components that need a dealer to code so that they will "talk" to the ECU , etc , etc. Not so much beneficial technology as much as guaranteed obsolescence !!