What not to do to a diesel

colinxm · Unread post by **colinxm** » 19 Oct 2009, 19:44

Hi Gents, this is what not to do after re fitting a Bosch diesel pump...

DO NOT forget to remove the pump drive gear locking pins before you get your missus to spin the starter motor while you try to bleed the injector piping... the pins WILL hold the gear in place, the crankshaft WILL continue to spin, the belt WILL jump the gears and you will lose the valve timing, the engine WILL refuse to rotate more once the valves and pistons get to know each other a little more intimately...

Most especially DO NOT get the missus to try to spin it over one more time just so's you can try to see just where that horrible noise was coming from

The gears will also eat the teeth on the belt - ask me how I know...

Colin.P

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 19 Oct 2009, 19:49

So putting bolts in to hold the sprocket works well then!

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 19 Oct 2009, 19:53

Oh dear!

Doesnt look too good, what damage has it done, new valves needed?

Unread post by **Paul-R** » 19 Oct 2009, 21:15

Ouch. I feel your pain.

It reminds me of an event some 40 years ago when I was going on holiday with Mum, Dad and brother. We were just starting on the annual holiday driving down to Spain and had stopped at (I think) Watford Gap service area for lunch. When my father tried to restart the car - a Vauxha VX 2300 Estate - it wouldn't.

We were towed to the Vauxhall dealer in Milton Keynes where they diagnosed that the timing belt had slipped. It was a Saturday and neither we, nor they, could wait until Monday to sort the problem properly so, with the agreement of my father, they changed the belt, retimed it and set the valve clearances a bit slack so that the valves might hammer themselves back into shape!.

Surprisingly it worked. We finished the holiday and, as far as I can remember, my father ran the car for quite a few years after that.

I don't think that it's option for you though. Valve to piston clearances are much closer on diesel engines!

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 19 Oct 2009, 21:46

The valves are thankfully vertical so don't often get bent.
Chances are you've just put mild dents in the piston faces

Pop the cam cover off and take a look.
It's probably all in one piece still, but if it's not, you can get away with replacing any broken bits, like the cam and it's caps, although finding compatible caps can take a while.
If all is in one piece, remove the cam so you can hand crank the engine with a suitable spanner on the crank bolt to get it back in time, then refit the cam (it's a pain as it's fighting the valve springs) and belt and carefully check the timing by hand!

Pleiades · Unread post by **Pleiades** » 19 Oct 2009, 21:47

Just a little tip for the future as it's a bit late now.

Whenever I fit timing pins in an engine I have a large red laminated card that I fit to the car keys, on this card in large black letters it says "TIMING PINS FITTED" I dont remove the card intill the pins are out, then it goes in the box with the timing pins.

I also use the same system for NO OIL, NO HYDRAULIC FLUID and NO WATER.

Maybe it's just an age thing, but does anyone else have little systems of work to stop this sort of thing from happening??

Regards
Martin.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 19 Oct 2009, 21:55

That's an excellent idea Martin!

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 19 Oct 2009, 22:05

Thats a very good idea, might just adopt that myself!

When im servicing the cars i always put the keys in the house away from the garage. So im not tempted to start it without thinking

cachaciero · Unread post by **cachaciero** » 19 Oct 2009, 22:47

Pleiades wrote:Just a little tip for the future as it's a bit late now.

Whenever I fit timing pins in an engine I have a large red laminated card that I fit to the car keys, on this card in large black letters it says "TIMING PINS FITTED" I dont remove the card intill the pins are out, then it goes in the box with the timing pins.

I also use the same system for NO OIL, NO HYDRAULIC FLUID and NO WATER.

Maybe it's just an age thing, but does anyone else have little systems of work to stop this sort of thing from happening??

Regards
Martin.

Hi Martin

Sounds like you've worked in an aviation environment at some time

Now if instead of bolts Colin had used a length of rod with big bent ends painted red they would have stood out as it were and been much more visible, after all one bolt head looks much like another particularly at times of stress

But seriously I feel for Colin and I have the utmost respect for somebody who publishes his f?*k up so that the rest of us can learn from it.
Now what size bolt was it that works so well as a locking pin.......?

cachaciero

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 19 Oct 2009, 22:55

I think Haynes nicked that idea off martin, but they say put a note on the dashboard... but that is a good idea. Or take a main fuse with a note where the fuse should be saying WHY it's out.

The note should also tell you to double check EVERYTHING, there is so much that can go wrong for example, a spanner on top of a starting engine might fall down and get stuck in somewhere REAL bad, should you not put the timing cover back on.

Not a word of lie now, an old mate of mine took these kind of things VERY seriously, he did the sad old trick of tying a strings around his finger to remind him of things.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 19 Oct 2009, 22:59

cachaciero wrote: But seriously I feel for Colin and I have the utmost respect for somebody who publishes his f?*k up so that the rest of us can learn from it!
cachaciero

Definately

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 19 Oct 2009, 23:17

a few weeks ago I started my old kawasaki 250 engine, and wondered why the oil light would not go off

I ran it for a lot longer than I would/should..

Previously, I had looked at the 'sight glass', the only way of knowing how much oil was in, and, with the engine off, it was a nice dark colour showing a good quantity of oil.. turns out the glass had been marked with oil from many years previously..

once I drained the tablespoon of oil out, and put 2L back in, the light went out nicely

ps have left the flywheel lock in once before

not such a bad one to forget......i

mark21td · Unread post by **mark21td** » 20 Oct 2009, 03:44

Now the worst thing you did there was get a woman involved when working on a car

A man would of asked if everything was ready and it was safe to try and start it.

All jokeing aside, as Xac said it's not the end of the world with an xud lump, you should be able to revive it without to much trouble.

colinxm · Unread post by **colinxm** » 20 Oct 2009, 04:16

Hi gents, ok, I've removed the rocker cover and all the rockers are intact, off came the engine mounting and timing belt covers, by backing off the crankshaft a little I managed to get the crankshaft into position and locked. Next was to remove the starter motor and then I could "pin" the crank into place. The diesel pump was the locked into position with two new M8 bolts and a new belt was slipped into place and tensioned.
I've turned the engine over by hand for a few revolutions and it seems to have really good compression throughout it's cycle and nothing is fouling so I'm hoping that there's no valve or piston damage.

I can't get any more done today but hope to get enough of it reassembled tomorrow to see if it'll run ok... It'll be a miracle if it does though as I've only just stripped and rebuilt the pump to sort out a persistant weep on it - not entirely sure that everything went back the way that they should until I can fire it up, I was Soooooo close then this...

Colin.P

mark21td · Unread post by **mark21td** » 20 Oct 2009, 08:29

Fingers crossed.