Roll Control Bushes & bulkhead heater matrix joint**

KP · Unread post by KP » 05 Sep 2009, 19:54

Does anyone know how easy it is to reaplce the little rubber bush's on the sway bar that runs from each front wishbone and onto the front subframe and from what i remember of the checks you should do on an activa its the one that controls the ARCS as i tried pushing it and the car didn't half swing one way and another

but the bars are a bit loose in the little clamp they sit in before disapearing into the cars maze of bits....

Also the hard plastic bits that stick out of the bulk head for the heater matrix seems to have got a pinhole

Is this easily fixable with a bit of sanding down and some araldite at all or am i looking at having to strip the dash out and all and sundry to fix this?

It never rains but it pours...

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 05 Sep 2009, 20:33

First off, the bulkhead fixing - is the leak on the actual 90 degree joint end
or the receiving bracket? The bad news here if it's the actual bulkhead is
the other side meets the heater matrix and it's a right git even undoing the
fitment off the bulkhead even where access is improved after the dash has
come out:

Guess you could try chemical metal or JB weld - it worked for me where I
broke the collar on a TD VSX - problem is the access or actually the lack
of it!

The rods for the feed linkage for the hight corrector aren't massively expensive
from Citroen and are worth fitting to get the system 100% with no slack.

Andrew

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 05 Sep 2009, 23:57

The plastic pipe won't have pinholed; it's cracked. Ignoring it is a good way to ruin the motor, as it forms part of the pressurised cooling system.

If you're just referring to the part which affixes from the firewall side, you might be able to effect a repair like I did, 20K miles ago (and not a drop leaked since). Otherwise, replacing the hose pair with plastic elbows is - longer term - cheap medicine.

KP · Unread post by KP » 06 Sep 2009, 09:43

Yip Andy the bit thats bust is the small plastic 90' bend that is the lower one in your picture, and yeah i guess it must have cracked but i cant feel a fracture line along it which is strange. when i blip the throttle it only comes out then so guess as the pressure increases the crack widens.

Can it be taken off and then sealed up per chance? Also the metal inlet pipe that goes from the airbox to the turbo, can this be removed easily or is it best to leave it be and effect the repair another way??

The control rods dont seem to have any play in them from what i can feel, one bush feels like its near enough totally gone though which would explain why i still get a bit of a lean in corners but then it kicks in and the car leans back as should be.

Thanks for the advice guys, and the pictures andy, they certainly do help. maybe we should start up a picture hosting thread for the activa where it would make things much easier to identify and not take forum bandwith u by hosting them offsite somewhere maybe??

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 06 Sep 2009, 10:42

I'd change the rods too as the plastic bushes wear them down suprisingly well and new ones aren't much.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 08 Sep 2009, 10:36

KP

I wouldn't chance losing the engine for the sake of sorting your cooling
issue, especially after all the recent work/expense and a bypass of the
heater with winter galloping towards us ISN'T an option!

I've just found a bulkhead fitment joint (as shown in the lower of the two
pictures) amongst my rabble of removed Xantia bits if you really need a
full replacement - not a job to take on lightly of course as the dash needs
removal and you'll be 99% of the way to changing the heater matrix...

I'm praying I don't need one myself as I can't remember whether I've
saved other one's before BUT there's one here if you need it!

Andrew

KP · Unread post by KP » 08 Sep 2009, 12:19

Cheers Andrew, its not the joint bit thats broken from what i could tell but the top plastic part of the pipes in the top picture at the right had side that had a hairline crack in it. I'm hoping the liquid metal will hold and if not i'll have to move onto some apoxy glue stuff that has help exhaust pipes together for me before now...

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 08 Sep 2009, 12:33

You're in luck then if the main bulkhead fitting is OK! It's a bit of a git to get at.

The engine side joint has two plastic cylinder collars into which the naff plastic
male feeds on the end of the two matrix pipes plug into and seal on a pair of
O rings. These can be quite fragile and I actually snapped a bit of one collar
off when examining the bulkhead for a means of running an additional wire
feed through - frought few days repairing the joint using JD weld!!

The silly little Z spring that is the only physical clip way well move about
but the joint needs a bit of a help to undo after 10 odd years or so of being
together and no doubt sealed with Forte etc along the way. If you can use
a curved lever like the head of a hammer to bear onto the bulkhead and
lever against the back facee of the coolant pipe plastic bracket you can
apply enough pressure to safely pop the bracket apart.

Your choice then is to attempt to repair the actual plastic end you suspect
is iffy or try getting another end from a car in the scrappy and bridge a
straight section of pipe with a double male joint and some jubilee if the
design of the hoses is different to your Activa.

Andrew

KP · Unread post by KP » 08 Sep 2009, 13:06

Can the plastic not be seperated from the rubber tubes at all or are they bonded together somehow?? Stupid french design wouldn't surprise me, why use a clip when glue is cheaper and means a repair is impossible when it is out of warranty....

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 08 Sep 2009, 13:35

Unfortunately, no - I don't believe it can be. It's an odd arrangement that's
typical of Citroen where unnecessary complication is the order of the day!

The rubber section of the main hose is usually fine and then it meets a plastic
collar that effectively has an inner tube diameter onto which the hose end
grips that then curls around the outer end of said hose and then a locking
collar grips the outer hose and holding it all together onto the weakest point
of all - the siamesed twin 90 degree bends that plug into the bulkhead fitting
mentioned earlier.

If you could even rescue the main hose which accounts for 90% of the matrix
feed pipework the real issue is getting it jointed onto the 90 degree plug that
meets onto the bulkhead - there's no real length to grip anything onto with
a jubilee and the plastic is quite brittle and prone to cracking which is likely
where your problem exists.

The only real way is to have a reliable joint connected securely off the
female joint on the bulkhead when you then either bridge your existing
input/output pipes onto it or are fortunate and have a like for like
replacement - there are however many variations.

I mention a secure joint onto the bulkhead as I had one Xantia (16v 2.0
VSX) where the damned thing kept popping off the bulkhead despite all
attempts to get a decent grip with the Z spring - too much relies on this
naff piece of dodge design!!

Andrew

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 09 Sep 2009, 16:07

Andrew, I repaired mine with a hose clamp and Blue Hylomar after some careful prep work. It's lasted over 20K now.

That said, a new hose pair every ten years is pretty good value really.

citrov6 · Unread post by **citrov6** » 09 Sep 2009, 19:07

argh activas bits scare me. doesn't sound too bad for those bits if its well supported though

KP · Unread post by KP » 09 Sep 2009, 20:10

Ok the scarey question, does anyone know how much this would cost from citroen, is it one leg or both and an arm that i need to take my saw to for these??? I'd go for used but not many activas being vultured and i wouldn't feel confident with the rubber bits not going brittle or the plastic having being carfeully removed....

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 09 Sep 2009, 23:43

I've taken the liberty of adding to the title of this thread as more forum
Xantia input may follow with the addition of the matrix bulkhead joint!!
Or maybe not!

I'm taking a vague stab at the CRRP price for a similar pipe as around 60+
quid but obviously don't take that as gospel - just a sketchy IIRC!!

I have in the past done exactly what Adam and I believe Clogzz have done by
removing the outer collar that grips the end of the rubber hose and renewal of
the grip with a jubilee clip. The 90 degree bend at the end of the coolant pipes
is necessary for the bulkhead joint fitting and is siamesed so will need splitting
to get the jubilee around the full circumference. I still maintain the plastic
remains of the joint that is necessary to be gripped with the Z spring is rubbish
and not robust enough to take much grip from the jubilee clip.

In your shoes KP, I'd seriously doubt the integrity of the split pipe end joint
and would be down a scrappy asap to blag any Xantia hose off the bulkhead
whatever the pattern of the resultant routing of pipework - least a joint into
the rest of the Activa pipes would be more accessible into the open area
of the engine bay rather than buried up against the bulkhead

Andrew

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 10 Sep 2009, 00:14

Seriously, if you do it right it can work. I slipped the hose up onto the stiffened portion, above where the compression collar used to sit. Cloggz just bypassed his heater altogether.

However, if the car has had a stressed cooling system (as I believe is the case with the abovementioned Activa) then the hose elbow will be damaged from the inside out. New is far, far superior - how does one really know the state of a second hand unit?

As I always remind people, a lot of engine damage occurs when people "just" try to wing it. That day they "just" had to get to work for a meeting, earned them £150 and cost them a £1300 motor. It's a no-brainer, really.