1996 Activa Clutch Issues

[LostInSpace]

The clutch pedal goes right down to the floor on my Activa & am unable to select gears.
Observing the clutch cable at the transmission end I cannot see any way of adjusting it so I think it must be an automatic adjusting cable.
I learn a plastic clutch clip near the pedal often fails on Xantias.
I'll be looking at this next.
The garage tells me the clutch must have gone.It's only done 38K!
Surely it can't have gone so soon?!
Anyone experienced similar?Any advice most welcome.

[red_dwarfers]

The plastic clip only comes into play on Xantias with a cable clutch, im fairly sure that the Activas had a hydraulic clutch.

If it is a cable clutch and the clip has broken then your clutch will look something like this.


Thats about as far as I go with knowledge of clutches, im sure one of the many others will come along with more help

EDIT: And welcome to the forum

[CitroJim]

The clutch pedal goes right down to the floor on my Activa & am unable to select gears.
Observing the clutch cable at the transmission end I cannot see any way of adjusting it so I think it must be an automatic adjusting cable.

Welcome to the forum

The Activa clutch is normally hydraulically operated, on the 2.0TCT at least, so you should be able to discount cables and clutch clips! That is, unless you have an Activa that was never imported into the UK. Activas normally use the ML5 gearbox.

A quick and easy way to tell if you're hydraulic is to look at the pipe that runs between the clutch pedal and the gearbox; it should have a blue metallic cylinder half way along it's length clipped back onto the bulkheadm by means of a spring clip.

The hydraulics are normally very reliable but are a pain to put right as it's a "sealed for life" system with no ability to top up the fluid or bleed air.

Has this happened suddenly or was it accompanied by any strange noises or odd clutch behaviour beforehand?

It is not unknown for the release bearing to collapse or pull out of the diaphragm and give the same symptoms as a broken cable/failed hydraulics will.

[andmcit]

Activa clutch changing; anyone have instructions or piccies!?

Sorry to digress the original query here but Jim's comment about the thrust
bearing prompts me to ask; I need to swap a siezed Activa engine over
shortly and the one thing that totally phazes me is the clutch! I've changed
autoboxes over and clutches in all maner of cable operated cars but I
REALLY don't fancy tackling the Activa hydraulic clutch as I'm going in blind!

I understand the hydraulic feed onto the box can be unpinned off it?
Is this on an arm that is the equivalent of the conventional cable lever
that operates the arm with the thrust bearing at the end? Is the 2.0i TCT
clutch the type with the embedded thrust bearing onto the pressure plate?
Isn't there a real faff about disengaging this 1.9TD Xant style thrust bearing
combined pressure plate?

Are there any decent piccies/instructions for this before I spanner into the
unknown. Obviously after breaking and/or fixing mine, I'll have all the iffy
Polaroids to share with everyone...

One more thing, is this clutch specific to the Xantia or the one shared with
the HDi and 2.1 diesels and Peugeot 406's? The prices seem to be all over
the place for them if I can even find someone prepared to list them?


Andrew

[CitroJim]

Andrew, I'll do some research into this. Like you, I've done loads of BE3s and autos but never an ML5.

I know there is an issue with relocating the release bearing on reassembly needing a special tool.

I will be back...

[LostInSpace]

Oops!Hydraulic not cable?!I was only trying to sound knowledegable !
It does look like your pic!I'll have another look!Cheers!

The plastic clip only comes into play on Xantias with a cable clutch, im fairly sure that the Activas had a hydraulic clutch.

If it is a cable clutch and the clip has broken then your clutch will look something like this.


Thats about as far as I go with knowledge of clutches, im sure one of the many others will come along with more help

EDIT: And welcome to the forum

[LostInSpace]

Thanks for your sound advice!It all happened suddenly with no whiney noises or other tell tale signs!Looks like I have a job on my hands!

The clutch pedal goes right down to the floor on my Activa & am unable to select gears.
Observing the clutch cable at the transmission end I cannot see any way of adjusting it so I think it must be an automatic adjusting cable.

Welcome to the forum

The Activa clutch is normally hydraulically operated, on the 2.0TCT at least, so you should be able to discount cables and clutch clips! That is, unless you have an Activa that was never imported into the UK. Activas normally use the ML5 gearbox.

A quick and easy way to tell if you're hydraulic is to look at the pipe that runs between the clutch pedal and the gearbox; it should have a blue metallic cylinder half way along it's length clipped back onto the bulkhead by means of a spring clip.

The hydraulicas are normally very reliable but are a pin to put right as it's a "sealed for life" system with no ability to top up the fluid or bleed air.

Has this happened suddenly or was it accompanied by any strange noises or odd clutch behaviour beforehand?

It is not unknown for the release bearing to collapse or pull out of the diaphragm and give the same symptoms as a broken cable/failed hydraulics will.

[RichardW]

Back to the thread hijack....

According to the BOL....

Hydraulic part is easy - the slave cylinder just needs a 90° turn to remove it from the gearbox. Retain the plunger with cable ties or similar - you do NOT want the pedal to sink (or worse accidentally press it!) and push the plunger out!

The release bearing is a bit more tricky. The release arm is contained within the bellhousing, and the slave cylinder pushes the end, which causes the other end to pull on the release bearing. The RB is not like the one on the 1.9TD clutch however - it is held onto the pressure plate by a snap ring, and the release fork slides in a groove in the edge of the bearing - Haynes doesn't make it clear but presumably there is enough clearance to allow the release fork to slide out of the RB as you withdraw the box. The clutch is supplied with the RB loose - if you are reftting the existing clutch, you need to separate them by 'just' unclipping the RB snap ring (ha ha!). Whilst the box is off, make up a small T-bar tool that you can put into the slave cylinder hole and engage / disengage with the release fork (Haynes has a picture). Fit the clutch to the flywheel, and the RB to the input shaft, engaging the groove with the release fork. Refit the box to the engine, and insert your tool, engaging it with the release fork and PULL the release fork (Hard probably!) to engage the snap ring into the pressure plate. If you now push on the release fork it should be stiff, and operating the clutch. Don't know if you can see into the bellhousing somewhere to check the engagement. Refit the slave cylinder (remove the ties!) and it SHOULD operate the clutch. If you've got it wrong, the plunger will pop out and cost ££££ or hours to fix

Dochevron on BXClub changed one of these on a 2.1TD and reckoned it took 10 hours and he would rather do lots of painful things than tackle another - and that from a man that makes changing BX engines look like a Sunday afternoon saunter to the pub!

[vince]

Activa clutch changing; anyone have instructions or piccies!?

Sorry to digress the original query here but Jim's comment about the thrust
bearing prompts me to ask; I need to swap a siezed Activa engine over
shortly and the one thing that totally phazes me is the clutch! I've changed
autoboxes over and clutches in all maner of cable operated cars but I
REALLY don't fancy tackling the Activa hydraulic clutch as I'm going in blind!

I understand the hydraulic feed onto the box can be unpinned off it?
Is this on an arm that is the equivalent of the conventional cable lever
that operates the arm with the thrust bearing at the end? Is the 2.0i TCT
clutch the type with the embedded thrust bearing onto the pressure plate?
Isn't there a real faff about disengaging this 1.9TD Xant style thrust bearing
combined pressure plate?

Are there any decent piccies/instructions for this before I spanner into the
unknown. Obviously after breaking and/or fixing mine, I'll have all the iffy
Polaroids to share with everyone...

One more thing, is this clutch specific to the Xantia or the one shared with
the HDi and 2.1 diesels and Peugeot 406's? The prices seem to be all over
the place for them if I can even find someone prepared to list them?


Andrew

Andrew, if its not dealer only i can find / get almost anything clutch wise.

Give me a bell next Wednesday when im back in work 0151 525 1764

[CitroJim]

Dochevron on BXClub changed one of these on a 2.1TD and reckoned it took 10 hours and he would rather do lots of painful things than tackle another - and that from a man that makes changing BX engines look like a Sunday afternoon saunter to the pub!

If the Doc struggled then it IS difficult and a PITA

One day I'll find out I guess, having two cars so fitted, I'm wondering seriously if it's better to just bite the bullet and lift the engine and transmission out completely rather than struggle about trying to remove the gearbox with the engine in place...

[xmexclusive]

Hi All

The Citroen XM & rare Pug 605, with the 2.5TD engine use a very similar hydraulic clutch set up. Uses the earlier MG5 box instead of ML5.
I have only compared specs between this set-up for the V6 and 2.5TD engines. Differences are small between the two types just a slightly different thrust bearing and different spec for the friction material on the clutch plate. Have examples of both type of box somewhere in the heap left over from when I was researching this. Thrust bearing difference is to suit the different boxes. Friction material spec difference is to suit the torque profile of the different engines.
Not yet done a clutch change on any of my 2.5's as replacement cars with good clutches are currently cheaper and easier than a replacement clutch. Generally accepted that the 2.5TD clutch job is engine out. There has been the odd report of an insitu clutch change but the available space is so limited that you need to know what you are doing. Many indys turn the job down, particularly if they have already done before.
Have seen a write up (on here I think) of a successful refurb/top-up of the sealed for life hydraulic clutch mechanism.

John

[andmcit]

Have seen a write up (on here I think) of a successful refurb/top-up of the sealed for life hydraulic clutch mechanism.

IIRC it was a posting by Handyman?

Vince; I'd be keen to hear what sort of price you can offer on the kit!

Andrew