Injector pump issue?

[jonathan_dyane]

The (Bosch) injector pump in my Xantia seems to be dying.

Firstly, as long as I have had the car, it has always been rather sluggish, and barely responded to my attempts to rectify this by shortening the rod on the turbo and rotating the rubber membrane in the boost compensator thingy.

For the last 1200 miles or so I have been running on good clean WVO, thinned with 5% Petrol. Aside from a decrease in startability, the car ran well on this, and I modified the filter housing to more effectively pre-heat the oil before reaching the IP.

I have just driven from Durham to Liverpool, and about half way into the journey I felt a drop in power, with a stumbling sensation when I put my foot to the floor, I assumed that the fuel filter was blocking, and carried on driving. Over the next 50 miles my top speed dropped to about 55, and hills became a problem. Experimenting, I discovered that if I dipped the clutch the engine would stall, and that the accelerator seemed to have an on or off characteristic, with little in between. I began to worry that this was something rather more troublesome than just the filter.

Eventually I go to the point where I felt the car was going to stop entirely, so I pulled off the motorway. The car rewarded me by stalling and failing to restart. Eventually I got it to catch, and limped to a safe place. On removing the filter, found it was still serviceable. I put it back in, squeezed the bulb until it was hard then tried to start, which it did with more cranking than would be normal. It sounded OK, and I continued driving, with the car initially driving as normal, but after about 8 miles the symptoms returned, with the car randomly cutting out, refusing to rev and generally being difficult to drive. Thankfully I managed to get home, but I fear that the pump, and specifically the governor had malfunctioned. I wonder if anyone could give me their two-penneth before I embark upon finding another pump

PS, there is no longer an in tank filter, and the IP shows no signs of leakage.

[CitroJim]

Hi Jonathan,

That, to me, sounds like the classic symptoms of fuel starvation. Bosch pumps don't die like that and are incredibly robust. About the only thing that sometimes dies in a Bosch is a plunger return spring and still they soldier on. It's hard to kill a Bosch

How did you know the fuel filter was Ok? Did you change it for a new one? If not, I'm thinking it may be blocked even though it looked OK and running without a strainer in the tank is risky as a large particle of muck could have been sucked up and is now partially blocking a pipe. Running WVO has a scouring effect on a tank and does dislodge large flakes and lumps of old rubbish.

It's also checking the fuel return pipe is clear too. Problems on either feed or return being restricted will lead to the pump being unable to establish a high enough transfer pressure when under load.

Best way to clean them is to blast them clear with an air line.

[George]

I fully concur with CitroJim on this one, removing the tank strainer was not a good idea, just leads to any debris flowing up and further along to block the fuel line.

I had exactly the same syptoms on my old S1 1.9td also run on veg, twice in 50,000 miles.

As Jim says , blast them with an airline, fit a new filter and fit new strainer.

Periodic cleaning of the strainer wouldn't go amiss either.

[Xaccers]

How did you modify the filter housing? You shouldn't need to make any modification.
Don't cut with anything other than diesel either.
As Jim says, chances are without the mesh on the intake from the tank, you've probably got large particles blocking your fuel line.

Where do you get your WVO from? Do they just filter it or do they actually distil it to remove as much of the water and acid as possible?

[jonathan_dyane]

Thanks guys, that was most heartening

Tonight I shall blow through the supply and return back to the tank with my bicycle pump (!) and fit a new filter and hope for the best...

Incidentally the oil I use is from an exotic Japanese restaurant, who only use their oil once apparently, then the guy I get it off filters it. It looks lovely and clear and is nice and thin.

I modded the filter housing by removing the thermostatic device and fitting a penny into the recess left so as to redirect the flow so all fuel goes through the labarinth in the thermostat housing. I also enlarged the holes through which the fuel enters the base of the filter housing. I did this as not only does it heat the fuel more effectively, but it also gets rid of a restriction in the passageway. I (perhaps misguidededly) also got rid of the tank strainer with the aim of reducing restrictions.

Xac, do you think I should get away with 100% WVO then?

[jgra1]

hi Jonathon

doesn't the labyrinth normaly hold coolant? or air?... can't remember...
I could be way off the mark with that..

I am on 100% wvo.. well, plus 10L of deisel every tank..

to be honest, I have lost a bit of confidence in mine.. its hard to start now, and smokey on idle, and has let me down on a few longer runs..

being fair though, suspect firewashers, maybe a glowplug, a re-clean of the tank filter, and I think it would be back to normal..

Most times it has let me down, it ran out of fuel! as since using WVO the guage and low fuel light have become very untrustworthy...

Agree with others, put the tank filter back in ..

John

[jonathan_dyane]

hi Jonathon

doesn't the labyrinth normaly hold coolant? or air?... can't remember...
I could be way off the mark with that..

The labyrinth is a route through which fuel may pass over and be heated by the thermostat housing, however there is a thermostatic device which only permits this in sub-zero temperatures. I have removed the thermostat and blocked the bypass route with a coin so that the fuel always runs through the labrinth, and so is pre-heated before the IP. Before yesterdays troubles, when warmed up the car ran better on WVO than diesel...

I shall be replacing the tank filter; shame I filed it safely in the bin

[Xaccers]

I stick to SVO personally, only adding diesel (Shell v-power) when I either can't get to costco or it's icy.
XUD's definitely run smoother (and in my case faster) on veg than diesel.

[jonathan_dyane]

It lives!

I replaced the filter (which did look fine) then blew through the diesel feed line (which seemed fine) then approached the diesel return line. Attempting to blow through by mouth, it seemed to be completely blocked solid, but adapting my cycle pump to fit the pipe I gave it a good pump, and although I initially found resistance, something cleared with an audible pop (heard by my friend listening at the filler cap with the cap off).

I went for a test drive and all seems well, *however* the clutch is now slipping on full boost, which I suspect may be down to the pipe having been partially blocked since I bought the car so limiting power. It could be that I spilt some WVO on the clutch, but alas I don't think I was that messy, and suspect that the lack of power was disguising a somewhat carked clutch

Hopefully tomorrows drive to work will be uneventful. The bike pump is now part of my tool kit...

Cheers guys!

[CitroJim]

That's great news Jonathan Except for the clutch

Not as bad a job as it first may appear to swap it though. Does the clutch feel very heavy underfoot? That's the normal sign it's about to bid its farewells..

You'd be very unlucky to get enough WVO down into the clutch from the filter to make it slip...

[Xaccers]

prime the fuel system as hard as you can and check the white fuel heater thermostat on the filter housing for leaks.
TehAgent went through several housings there due to a blocked fuel return pipe.
We believe (tehagent, citrojim, and I) that whoever ran the car before him used veg oil of some kind cut with turps or some other nasty solvent.

[jonathan_dyane]

Well, alas it would seem that the car's return to health was somewhat shortlived; driving to work today the clutch action became strange, and a few more gear changes on the pedal dropped to the floor with the clutch still engaged.

I managed to limp to work clutchless, and initial investigations suggest the cable is fine; I think the release bearing has chewed through the pressure plate

Not sure whether to break it or pass it on; I don't currently have the time or facility to do a clutch swap.

[CitroJim]

It's more than likely the infamous clutch clip that has failed Jonathan

Lots of posts on here about it. Most recently look for one by Tim (Napolean) He has Captain Mainwaring as his Avatar.

The clutch clip is dead easy to swap as long as you don't mind lying head-down in the footwell for a couple of hours, have magnetic fingertips and have night vision....

In truth it's a Xantia PITA

[jonathan_dyane]

It's more than likely the infamous clutch clip that has failed Jonathan

No alas, it is definatley a problem with the clutch itself. I've just had another look at it, and the clip and cable are intact, whereas the clutch operating lever on the gearbox is at rest in the 'disengaged' position, and can be moved easily by hand right across it's arc of movement. I think this could be the end of the road for the old girl...

[George]

It's more than likely the infamous clutch clip that has failed Jonathan :cry:

No alas, it is definatley a problem with the clutch itself. I've just had another look at it, and the clip and cable are intact, whereas the clutch operating lever on the gearbox is at rest in the 'disengaged' position, and can be moved easily by hand right across it's arc of movement. I think this could be the end of the road for the old girl...

I would weigh up the general condition of the car, mileage, length of MOT remaining, recent new parts, expected future outlay on parts and a big plus point would be if the car was without any of the other usual Xantia faults. Before deciding to scrap her.

The clutch change I've done several times with scissor jack and a little trolley jack and without the help of a hoist and isn't all that scary.

I have bought the Valeo clutch on Ebay before for less that forty quid. Dont go for the Quinten Hazel one, the release bearing is shoddy and it fell to bits after 20,000 miles.

Another thing to remember here is driving technique. Handbrake on, gears in neutral, foot off the clutch pedal whilst waiting at lights etc. That will save putting stress on the cable, the clip, the release bearing. And for putting stress on master and slave cylinders on hydraulic clutches.