Berlingo 1.9d oil consumption & questions.

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:19

Busy writing previous missive during Neils last post.

When I was an apprentice, too many decades ago, I was taught that to avoid warping heads, head fasteners must be 'un-torqe' cylinder in the same sequence and manner as specified for tightening. The threat was that the cost of any skim would come out of my meagre wages. While I haven't had to change more than a handful of head-gasket in subsequent decades, so far I've never had to have a head skimmed in my life.

I await the resulting storm of dispute with interest

B u u u u t - before you disagree, do you carefully and progressively un-torgue fasteners or whip them off any old how?

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:20

Are you using mineral or synthetic oil? I think it'll bed in much quicker using mineral oil, then you can switch back once it's stopped burning it.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:30

Old-Guy wrote: B u u u u t - before you disagree, do you carefully and progressively un-torgue fasteners or whip them off any old how?

I was taught like you Guy.. Progressively in the reverse sequence to tightening and make sure the engine is stone-cold.

A very light skim on a diesel head is an excellent way of cleaning up the face and ensuring it is dead-flat. When I say very light, I mean very-light and not 20 thou'...

I believe too the way to head gasket happiness is to look after the coolant very carefully by changing it regularly; in an XUD regular coolant changes are as important as regular oil changes. Make sure the rad is always in tp-top conditin and that the fans are in working order at all times.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:31

Hi Mike, i've been using 'Granville Platinum' synthetic based 10/40.

I trawled around a few local motor factors & couldn't find a mineral diesel in 10/40...

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:00

Jim

Gist of fairly recent workshop conversation:
"heads almost always warp when you take 'em off"
"Do you 'un-torque' bolts the same way you tighten them?"

"...take far too long to...like that."
(never mind that a skim means two 30 mile round trips to a machine shop).
Me, "I've never had to have a head skimmed in 40 years..."
Thoughtful silence.

When I use the workshop to change our Xantia's front discs and pads, I'll try to discretely find out what current practise is.

I agree that a very light skim is the perfect way to clean a head - if the facility is close at hand.

I'm a bit out in the sticks - so as the block face must be scraped and that's inevitably less easy than the head...

Guy

xantiatdsx · Unread post by **xantiatdsx** » 22 Jan 2009, 12:37

Hi Neil,

is this similar engine to the ZX1.9d? when i had mine the poor starting was the fuel bulb primer leaking and letting air in which took a time to start as it ended up drawing fuel through every time and air. one i changed the bulb £18 it was much improved.
another thing i have done in the past with TD cars or D cars is open the glove box or leave the door open to see the interior light on. once ignition is on and plugs energised the light dims, once they swicth off then the light gets brighter, then start the car.
with the zx if it was summer and hot outside or i had driven it anywhere i never used to wait for the plug light as it would fire up perfect without.
there are many tricks to a smooth start as you will know from the 2cvs. I can start Dolly on half a turn smooth and smoke free or have a few goes and smoke screen the street... easy!

Your van was nice and I dont think you should be put off with what may only be basic service items and getting the knack.

see you next wknd

TIM

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 01 Feb 2009, 15:08

Update time!

After coming home from Derby at new year i topped the oil up on the 2nd January - i've used the van daily for the month - no real long trips, mostly commuting work (10 miles a day) with a few shortish fast runs perhaps 30 miles each. Anyway, i was due to drive to Surrey & back yesterday so i checked the oil on Friday; it was halfway on the dipstick - so i topped it up the the max mark.

Yesterday drove the 216 miles to Bagshot, when i got after having stopped, i turned the key & sure enough the yellow oil level light was once again flashing for 15 seconds! FFS i was kind of hoping that it was improving with use.

Topped it up & drove home - same again, light flashing!

Weird that it's been fine all month and had only used a small amount of oil & as soon as it gets a 70-80 mph run on the motorway the oil just disappears! Other than the oil consumption it's running lovely! Very annoying!

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 14 Mar 2009, 22:48

Old-Guy wrote:
From what the previous owner told me (she bought it direct from npower) it was only used for pottering around the station where a 20mph limit is in place - the only time it got to stretch it's legs is when either they went outside to fill it up with diesel, or it was off for a service... During the first 2 years of it's life it clocked up 60k, then the last 10 it's averaged 4k a year. Perhaps this is part of the trouble?!
I reckon not part of the (oil consumption) problem but ALL of it! High oil consumption on vehicles (particularly diesels) driven too gently from new is a well-known phenomenon:-

A dozen years ago, I bought a Montego TD Estate from a dealer friend - 4 years old with a genuine 40k and FSH. On its first working day, I drove 150 miles to Tavistock from Gloucestershire in my usual 2¼hrs. Being a 'new' car, before driving back I checked all the fluids. It needed nearly a litre of oil! My dealer friend gave me a 5L can of oil and promised to take the car back if the oil consumption wasn't seriously improved by the time it was empty. After a couple of weeks of being thrashed, mostly over the same route, the oil consumption was reasonable, and it 'went' better too. A 'shopping car' driven gently to save fuel, it had been p/x-ed when the oil consumption started to cause concern. All it needed was running in! During the next 9 years and 100k hard miles, it rarely needed more than ½L between 6k services.

It doesn't matter that the Perkins engine in the Montego is an unrelated design to your XUD.

So, before you go to any independent Citroen 'specialists' in Plymouth (don't ask!) to get the oil consumption problem fixed, try running-in the engine. Put a 5L can of the correct grade of oil (from a motor factor) in the van and drive it as hard as possible (trips to Exeter?), keeping a careful eye on the oil level and consumption, until the can is empty. You should find that the oil consumption has fallen dramatically. You may find, as I did, that it takes several hundred miles before there's a major improvement. Once it does start getting better, keep up the pressure until the oil consumption is sensible.

BTW, I had to change the cold-idle waxstat on our Xantia XUD to sort poor cold idling.

Let us know how you get on - feed-back helps other forum members enormously

Guy

Guy, time for a little update... I've driven nearly 1500 miles since the MOT early last month - this included a 300 odd mile round trip to Salisbury last weekend. I have NOT yet topped the oil up... I hope i'm not tempting fate, but it seems to have sorted itself out a bit - the oil level is still just under 3/4's up the dipstick.

I had the o/s driveshaft replaced by the citroen chap you recommended to me & after he took it for a test drive.. he said that the engine felt very tight considering it had just over 100k on the clock. So perhaps the mystery has been solved? I was a bit apprehensive at MOT time, but the thing sailed right through - not even an advisory!

Thanks for all your suggestions & pointers - i'll keep you updated (if you're interested)

cheers, Neil

falling-out-with-my-car · 19 Mar 2009, 19:28

one way to test to see if it is the glow plugs is to turn the ignition off as soon as the heater plug light goes out and switch on the ignition again to reheat the plugs a second time if the engine starts it is probably the glow plugs not getting hot enough the first time around.

I was shown this to diagnose faulty heater plugs on my old BX.

regards Nigel.

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 23 Mar 2009, 17:11

Neil

Been busy, only just read your post of last week-end.

I'm glad the oil consumption problem seems to be cured. I reckon your occasional long motorway trips were the only time the engine has had to work hard enough to put enough pressure on the piston rings to make them cut through 10 year's-worth of glaze on the bores.

Guy

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 13 Jun 2009, 15:49

update:

the van is running lovely! coming up to it's 7,000 mile in my ownership & i quite like the old heap!

But... the oil consumption is terrible.. still! I thought it had sorted itself out after not having topped it up in 1500 miles. Wrong! I did a 1100 mile round trip last month to the Dutch Citroen 'Waggel' meeting. i reckon it used the best part of 4 litres during the trip.

Any ideas? it runs well, doesn't drop any oil, the engine is clean & leak free - there are no undue noises or rattles. It appears to be burning the oil on acceleration, i can't see for sure if there's any blue smoke on the over-run.

cheers, Neil

falling-out-with-my-car · 14 Jun 2009, 14:24

Neil,

I as wondering how often you change the engine oil on the Berlingo because I had oil disapearing under load if I neglected it past 3,000 miles.
Apparently engine oil starts to break down after 2,000 miles anyway, maybe increasing the frequency at which you change the oil might improve the situation although having said that you are topping it up frequently as it burns. are you using a fully synthetic oil? and what grade?

I am also wondering if your oil cooler is blocked, the cooler is directly under the oil filter the filter screws onto it.
Usually when an engine burns excessively under load its the rings on the way out. is the engine more noisey under load?

our old BX (similar engine) burnt oil but only when towing the caravan.
As a last resort have you tried one of the propriatory addatives that claim to stop burnning of oil. I think Pleiedies citroen do one that you add to the oil its pretty good and expensive to but Ive heard it works.
regards Nigel.