Xantia Steering Rack

Unread post by **KennyW** » 10 Mar 2009, 20:50

Eventually I've managed to fix my Rack and put it back together and back on the car. 8)
But

The steering is very heavy.

Is it possible to an air lock in the Power ram/rack and how do you clear it

I've started the Citro areobics but ran out of daylight.

Any suggestions

Kenny

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 10 Mar 2009, 21:08

The rack should be self bleeding but the fluid will only run through it if you move the steering. Have you actually tried driving it?

Unread post by **myglaren** » 10 Mar 2009, 22:22

With the engine running of course, turn the wheel from full lock to full lock, then repeat, lots of times, to bleed the steering system.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Mar 2009, 12:49

WITH THE REGULATOR SCREW OPEN.. or does that not matter with 6+2 pumps..

While you were there, did you check the operation of the UJ joint on the bottom of the sttering colum..Rack end.. ???

Paul

Unread post by **KennyW** » 11 Mar 2009, 18:56

Thanks for the replies,

Yes, i have driven it and yes i have gone from full lock to full lock but it was very stiff ie if there was a large fluid loss etc.

the UJ is fine i checked that prior to refitting.

I am wondering the track rod ends are there different designs to the ball joints. the reason I am asking is the new ones i fitted are the opposite to the old ones I took off.I did also check i put them on the right way aound ie Left hand to left hand etc.
The right hand or o/side are longer threads than the left or n/side ball joints.

Kenny

Pleiades · Unread post by **Pleiades** » 11 Mar 2009, 22:13

Hi Kenny.

The ball joints should not realy make any odds to the power bit, as the power should overcome any problems here.

What was the power like before you took the rack out ?

In my experience, Xantia racks dont give much trouble at all, the problem is usually either the pinion, ram or pump.

Regards
Martin.

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 11 Mar 2009, 22:17

Forgive me if I am completely wide of the mark and I am in no way questioning your competence, last thin I'd do

but....

Have you connected the hydraulic pipes back up in their correct positions?

I've saw this thread when you first posted it (I seem to live on FCF these days

) and I have a nagging feeling that I have seen somewhere that connecting up pipes the wrong way round can cause the problem you are having.

Again, as I say forgive me if you have checked this, it is probably me thinking random things again

Unread post by **KennyW** » 12 Mar 2009, 19:14

Thanks for the replies,

Toby HDi I have replaced them correctly because on my rack the inlet and outlet pipes from the Steering pinion are different sizes and the pipes from the Pinion to the ram are different lengths and shapes so can only go on one way.

But i agree it could have been a problem.

martin, the steering was fine prior to removal of rack and was leaking from Pinion.

No leaks from Pinion but very stiff steering

The only question i have is, When the pinion is stripped down How many seals are there inside.

My pinion was as follows 1 seal at top ie the spline end and 2 at the bottom end.
With the assistance of mechanic friend who has rebuilt several pinions over the years we successfully put it back together and no leaks.

Hence my asking about air locks.

Thanks in anticipation

Kenny

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 13 Mar 2009, 13:14

Hi Kenny,

It does look like 3 seals inside the pinion.
Citroën Service's drawings are no use for this ... they're all shown the same.
This picture from jgra1’s blog:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_2fj8MH_LeQ0/S ... on+kit.JPG

My pinion was leaking, and there was no way that I could tackle that.
I happily paid £340 for a very good job at a power steering place.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 13 Mar 2009, 14:21

hi Kenny

buy a remade pinion from Martin... if that is the problem.. sounds like it might be...

I went down the rebuild route and its impossible

if you've bench pressure tested/direction tested yours and your happy it is ok, ignore that but I dont know what else it could be..

Unread post by **KennyW** » 15 Mar 2009, 20:32

Thanks for the replies,

Here's the latest, had rack off and on Today and still same problem. But while carrying out a test drive I had a leak from the ram side of rack.

My questions are what are the symptoms of a faulty or sticking ram and could this have been the problem

The Pinion is fine.

Kenny

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 15 Mar 2009, 22:50

The Xantia rack and pinion valve is almost exactly the same type as those found on the BX'es.

The only real differences are the way the pressure supply is generated, and the physical layout of the rack.
(on very early Xantiae the pressure supply is exactly the same as on the BX)

On the BX pinion valve it is wellknown, that the third (the middle) O-ring should not be fitted as this immediately gives erratic steering behaviour.

I cant say for sure its the same situation on the Xantia pinion valve, and dont want you to take this info for granted. I really would like to have Martins comments on this, as he must have seen both types of pinion valves inside ...
I suspect you have the problem here since the pinion valve was rebuild with new parts and the rep kit do contain all 3 O-rings.
Any good mechanic dont want to leave any bits behind ...

Now for the ram itself. It can only leak out the main seal where the piston protrudes.
This leak is collected by a bellow with a pipe stud in the rubber.
If the rubber is detoriated, LHM will seep out here.
You should have a completely normal seepage leak here as usual to keep the seal and rod lubed.
But of course no pressurised leaks.

Note that rams seen a lot of mileage may have detoriated mounting bushings, which allows for too much stress on the ram itself during operation, which again may lead to leaks from the supply pipes because of cracks here.

Unread post by **KennyW** » 16 Mar 2009, 18:33

Thansk for the reply Anders,

My pinion is fine now after the repaired all 3 o rings replaced along with the other 2 seals.

It would appear my ram has blown through the seal and is leaking fluid will confirm same when i remove the rack again

I believe this was the problem with the heavy/stiff steering.

I'm getting quite good at it.

I will have to source a ram specific to my make and model since there are so many variations.

Kenny

Unread post by **KennyW** » 20 Mar 2009, 08:58

Hi Gang,

Removed rack and found the following:

The leak was coming from the rack itself NOT the ram.It would appear the LHM fluid has flooded the rack and came out through the nearside gaiter.Obivously the repair to the pinion did not work as i think this how the fluid got into the rack and hence the heavy steering effect.

Hopefully new rack will arrive shortly and problem solved.

Kenny

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 20 Mar 2009, 22:06

Actually, Anders described the most likely current problem.

You put in all three supplied seals, rather than leave out the non-required one. I believe this stops fluid exiting the pinion valve as designed; it then escaped past the bottom pinion seal into the rack. Fluid sealing qualities of the rack itself at line pressure, are pretty minimal; it just has to be sealed for atmospheric pressure.