Berlingo 1.9d oil consumption & questions.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 00:06

Hello there, i'm a newbie!

Recently acquired a 1997 Berlingo van, 1.9 xud? engine. It's got 100k on the clock & that's genuine, backed up by old MOT's & some service history. I not familiar with diesel Citroens - my cars a flat twin powered, normally!

It runs very well, but if i leave it overnight, especially in this cold weather it can be a little awkward to start - takes perhaps a couple of turns of the key to get going, then it runs a bit 'lumpy' for perhaps 3-4 seconds then settles down nicely. When it does first start up after being left for a reasonable length of time it smokes (appears greyish/whiteish!) for about 10 seconds & then clears. The engine appears to run well, it's quiet, & has no untoward noises - holds the temp gauge halfway on the dial.

I can't find anything relating to the glow plugs being changed - would that be a possible cause?

Other thing is - when i picked it up, i drove home 180 miles, negotiated a roundabout near my house & the oil pressure lamp came on, only briefly, got home & turned off the ignition, turned it back on & the little yellow lamp that looks like a dipstick flashed for 10-15 seconds - consulted the handbook & it was due to low oil level - topped it up, got the level 3/4's of the way to the full mark on the stick & all was well. i've used it everyday for 3 weeks, racked up 900 miles including a 280 mile round trip today, mostly motorway. Approaching my town tonight i took a different roundabout & the oil pressure lamp lit up again - soon as i straightened up it went out. pulled over switched off - turned it back on again & the dipstick yellow warning lamp flashed again!

I must admit,i haven't checked the level - it was dark & cold at 10pm! Assuming that the light is accurate, that would seem like a lot of oil consumed? It doen't appear to smoke other than when first started up & it certainly doesn't drop any on the road when parked up?

Can anyone help shed some light on these problems?

cheers

Unread post by **myglaren** » 29 Dec 2008, 02:20

Welcome to the forums, hope we can help with your problems.

Re: cold starting difficulty. I would certainly suspect a glowplug fault as first thing to check. Closely followed by a battery check.

Initially try waiting half a minute after the glow plug indicator goes out before turning the engine over. Let it idle for a minute (don't rev it - at all!)

As far as the oil consumption goes, it certainly sounds rather high.
Was the car on level ground when you checked and did you allow a few minutes for the oil to run back down into the engine before checking the level?

Flat twin - 2CV?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 08:25

Steve is spot on. Glowplugs are always worth a swap. Depening if it's a 1.9D (normally aspirated) or a TD (turbo), it's either an easy job or a bit of a devil.

Note that the D and TD use very different glowplugs. the D uses the BERU GV636 and the TD uses the BERU GN909. they are NOT interchangable.

It's also worth replacing the injector leakoff pipes, especially if the engine has a Bosch pump. These can affect starting.

Oil consumption on any XUD engine should be near enough zero. If it's using oil, there is a problem. More than likely a leak as they rarely burn it.

Beware of the low oil level light; it often cries wolf, especially on modern semi-synthetic oils and can give false indications.

Always check the oil level when cold and the engine has been stopped for some hours.

NEVER overfill it. Overfilling can result in the engine consuming the excess as fuel and theis can lead to a destructive runaway. Not a pretty sight.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 29 Dec 2008, 08:33

hi and welcome

as Stevs said i would certainly check the glow plugs first, they are relativly easy to change compaired to PSA XUD lumps, that is once you have got the air box off,

with the oil i would check the level again and on level ground, then top up to the top mark on the stick then keep an eye on it every day for a while,

so is/was it a dersh, if so do you still have one and were abouts are you

regards malcolm

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 11:28

hi guys, thanks for the welcome & the advice.

I've just been out to the van; there's one drop of oil on the floor - about the size of a 10p piece - it's been parked up in the same spot for 11 hours...

The engine appears to be clean with no obvious leaks, from underneath there's a slight bit of oil dampness to the rear of the sump, but nothing major, certainly nothing poring out or what you'd class as major.

I switched the ignition on, waited over 30 seconds after the glow plug lights went out & tried to start it - no improvement, infact, it took about 5 turns of the key this morning before it actually caught & ran... Lots of smoke, then that cleared. Also, when i first switched on yellow 'dipstick' light flashed, ran the engine for about 5 minutes, switched off turned the ignition back on & the yellow light was out... Maybe i switched it back on too soon after having the engine running. I haven't checked the oil because it's parked on a slope.

Flat twins - yes, i own a 2cv - 1985 special & a 1981 Acadiane that's just come over from France. I bought the Berlingo, because my Dad own a 2001 1.4 Multispace & that's been ultra reliable (touch wood

) & i wanted to keep the salt off the A series during the winter months! That's the thing i hate about 'modern' cars, too many warning lights & as has been mentioned above, they do give 'false' readings... If only 2cv's didn't rust so much, i'd stick to them all year round!

oh, i'm in Cornwall, just over the Tamar bridge from Plymouth!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 12:03

Ahh, now if you wait too long (on a D) after the glowplug light goes out, the plugs will have cooled too much for a good start. The advice to wait a bit longer after the light has gone out only applies to Turbo Diesels that employ post-heating. NA engines don't and when the light goes off, the glowplugs go out too.

The fact you have whitish smoke on start attempts certainly suggests glowplugs but there is one other small possibility. The valve clearances may have closed up resulting in some valves being ever so very slightly open when it is really cold. A strange quirk of the XUD is that the valve clearances are tightest on a stone-cold engine. Valve clearances are easy to check but resetting them is another matter as they're set by shims under the buckets.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 29 Dec 2008, 13:38

yes Jim but is this an XUD lump as a lot of bling goooose have one of the DW8 or is it 10 lumps in,

also i belive the later PSA glow plug system's are linked to engine temprature, so if the engine is warm/hot the glow plugs come on less or not at all

the oil leak could be the cam cover gasket, just run you finger along the joint at the rear of the cam cover to see if there is oil weaping

regards malcolm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 13:51

citronut wrote:yes Jim but is this an XUD lump as a lot of bling goooose have one of the DW8 or is it 10 lumps in

A 1997 'Bling will, I would have thought, have the XUD Malcolm as I don't think the DW8 was about at that time. The DW8 is not that significantly different to the XUD7 as far as I know. It appeared, I think, around the time of the HDi as a white van/poverty spec. engine.

Normally, the engine temperature determines how long the glowplugs post-heat for. Post-heating ends generally after three minutes or the coolant reaching 60 degrees.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 14:56

I've checked the oil level on reasonably level ground & it was registering just above the minimum level on the dipostick. I've had a good look around & can't see anywhere there could be oil leaking -even the 10p sized drop of oil on the road isn't from this van!

I guess it must be burning it? It looks like it's used over a litre of oil in 900 miles...

as for the glow plugs - are the ones i need beru gv636?

I'm not sure what to do know, i bought it because it was very tidy for a van, had lots of history & runs well, now that i've been using it this oil problem has come to light, along with it's reluctance to start - i don't know whether to let an expert have a look, or just sell it on cheap letting the buyer know the problems...?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 15:59

Neil,

I've been doing a bit of research and your Bling could have either the XUD7, XUD9 or the DW8 engine according to service.citroen.com

To know precisely which glowplgs are needed, a positive ID is required as the DW8 uses different ones to the XUD.

Can you supply the VIN number, the big one that begins VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]... From that we should be able to pin it down.

The oil consumption is a tad worrying. A litre in 900 miles is a lot for a Citroen Diesel of any sort. I know it's hard to see in a van but is there any blue smoke from the exhaust to betray that it is being burned? Perhaps someone could follow you and observe. Don't worry about black smoke as this is not oil burning but rather incomplete diesel burning.

The two main guilty parties for oil burning are failed rings (which may account for the hard cold starting too) or failed valve stem oil seals.

If no blue smoke is evident, it is worth an oil change for some decent stuff. It's possible the oil in there is wrong (too thin) or very old and tired, both of which can push consumption up.

As to what to do, it really depends on what is diagonsed as wrong and the overall condition of the van. If it's really good overall with just this issue, it's likely worth sorting it if the van originally came at a good price.

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 16:25

Jim,

Thanks for your help, it is appreciated! Not sure about the blue smoke - i'll get my dad to follow me tomorrow & see what the score is...

The number is: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff] HTH!

It's basically a decent looking van, was owned by npower & was used at Fawley power station near Southampton, they owned it for 10 years & it's had lots of services, cambelts, even the HG was replaced in March '07 for a total of £690! There's a few niggles - the drivers side wiper is limp & has play in the spindle still works, just tries jumping off the edge of the screen! The heater control lights don't work etc.

pic of the engine:

From what the previous owner told me (she bought it direct from npower) it was only used for pottering around the station where a 20mph limit is in place - the only time it got to stretch it's legs is when either they went outside to fill it up with diesel, or it was off for a service... During the first 2 years of it's life it clocked up 60k, then the last 10 it's averaged 4k a year. Perhaps this is part of the trouble?!

cheers, Neil

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 17:20

Hi neil,

Excellent

Always helps to have a picture and a VIN number...

According to Citroen it has the XUD9 engine and the picture confirms this pretty much. It has a Lucas injection pump so no trying to run it on veg. It'll kill the pump...

The correct glowplugs are the BERU GN909. (GSF Part. No. BBGN909).

The engine looks nice and clean and the other problems are pretty minior so it has to be worth a bit of TLC.

Glowplugs are an absolute doddle to swap on these. You can see them clearly, looking like baby spark plugs with a heavy cable daisy-chained between them.

Give it an oil change and see how it goes...

You'd have thought NPower would have used electric vehicles

berlingo_neil · Unread post by **berlingo_neil** » 29 Dec 2008, 17:40

Thanks again, Jim & everyone else for your help & pointers!

I'll keep you informed of any developments...

cheers, Neil

uncle buck · Unread post by **uncle buck** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:01

citrojim wrote:Ahh, now if you wait too long (on a D) after the glowplug light goes out, the plugs will have cooled too much for a good start. The advice to wait a bit longer after the light has gone out only applies to Turbo Diesels that employ post-heating. NA engines don't and when the light goes off, the glowplugs go out too....

My findings are...
If the ignition is switched on but the engine NOT started both the D & TD glow plugs stay on for approx 15 seconds then go out.

I'm pretty sure the plugs on the D stay on for this 15 second period even if the engine is started, but I could be mistaken on this point as it's quite a while since I owned a standard D

The TD plugs stay on for approx 3 minutes after the engine is started, unless the coolant temprature is over 60 degrees then you only get the 15 seconds.
Later cars also had a micro switch fitted to the throttle lever on the pump that cut the 3 minute post heat cycle if the throttle was opened over a certain amount for a given period of time....I think this was approx 5 seconds or so.

The smokey lumpy start up has all the characteristics of a plug off.

Regards.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 29 Dec 2008, 18:11

Absolutely spot-on Uncle Buck

Neil's Bling does not have post-heating as there is no microswitch on the injection pump so the 15 second rule will apply. It does have cold start advance though and that always bears a check. You can see the cold start advance solenoid on the side of the pump and the small switch contact attached to the fast idle lever (the switch is that perished rubber lbellows) that operates it.

That will only work if the fast idle waxstat is working and chances are that died a long while ago...

Even if the cold start advance and fast idle is not 100% operational, it does not make a huge difference to starting unless temperatures are really very low.