Coolant filling

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 21 Dec 2008, 01:37

Toby_HDi wrote:
AndersDK wrote:If you mean continue to top up with water - then yes.
You are completely safe even if you hit a 1:3 mix coolant:water.
Yes, so far I have 5.5l Antifreeze and managed about 2l of water

Actually from what I've read you don't want to go over 50% anti-freeze, even in cold climates.

Although the freezing point might go a bit lower, anti-freeze (without water) is apparently a poor heat conductor so the cooling ability of the coolant is considerably reduced if you go too far beyond 50% anti-freeze.

I've generally seen a minimum of 33% anti-freeze (glycol based) recommended for warm climates ranging to a maximum of 50% for cold climates.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 21 Dec 2008, 01:40

Toby_HDi wrote:Something I forgot to mention...

My milk carton is not really suitable. It doesn't fit into the expansion tank properly. What do other people use and how do you make it airtight. How do you keep it in position while you go about closing bleed screws etc?

I used a standard 1 litre green LHM bottle cut in half, and then I added a large o-ring around the neck of the bottle and it fits quite well

Well enough that it can stand there on it's own without falling over or leaking.

Regards,
Simon

Mandrake · Unread post by **Mandrake** » 21 Dec 2008, 01:46

Toby_HDi wrote: I do believe I only have the two bleed points, one on the matrix outlet and one on the thermostat. I think the one on the matrix outlet is like a tyre valve cap so will try removing that one completely.

On my petrol, it is the one on the thermostat housing which looks like a tyre valve cap which I had to remove completely. The one on the top of the small hose going to the heater was shaped more like a plastic bolt and that one only needs to be undone a turn.

Also I did have the overflow still attached so will remove that.

Just removing it wont help - the water will still run out on the ground

You need to block it, or lift it up in the air while using the header tank so the end of the overflow pipe is higher than the level you're filling to in the header tank.

Will it be ok to just continue where I left off with trying to get the water in? I put 5.5 litres of antifreeze already.

Yep, as I mentioned in my other post your mixture is already too concentrated so by the time you get some more water in it will be closer to 50%.

Regards,
Simon

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 21 Dec 2008, 16:05

you realy need to check if your top hose and rad are becomming hot at all, if they are not your thermostate is not openning, so you will not be able to get the air out of the system,

i never use any sort of header tank and never have any probs bleeding a PSA car

regards malcolm

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 21 Dec 2008, 16:49

I find I have no need for a header bottle and noticed even when I open the bleed valves I don't get an noticeable air escaping, just coolant, so I'm wondering if there's something amiss with your system Toby... but what though? Did you drain and flush the system? Back-flush too? Can you remind us, what did you disturb and what did you replace? If you can, you're welcome to bring it over here. I can't come to you I'm afraid - no insurance - unless you can pick me up and drop me back after?

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 22 Dec 2008, 10:38

Ok, I tried again this monring and it's really annoying me now. No progress again..

I have two bleed screws, I'm thinking the matrix outlet one is like the plastic bolt Mandrake has mentioned. The one on the thermostat is a like a round headed bolt with a hex recess (ie. undone with an allen key)

The top hose does not seem to be getting hot - however, the temperature gauge is not moving either so this perplexes me further. I am seriously tempted to drain it again and reflush and start from scratch.

Mike - yes I drained and flushed the system, I did not back flush as the water was running clear from both the radiator and the block after I had flushed it through.

I have disturbed the cambelt, tensioners and waterpump. these were replaced. I also removed the thermostat to flush the block, this was not replaced but was refitted. Before I started the work the car was fine, it would run quite cool and I had no problems with it.

I may take you up on that offer if thats ok Mike. Not sure how I can go about it though at the moment.

Thanks

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 22 Dec 2008, 10:54

you could do with a helping hand Toby.

My v6 had a big airlock in the matrix and the external header tank was the only way of getting it sorted..

Rad has a bleed, there were two on the manifolds from Rad to block, and finally the matrix valve (i did same as Mandrake and lost that one straight away down the engine

) the tyres came to good use

keep trying, and get someone to hold the bottle in while you do checks..

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 22 Dec 2008, 11:00

You really don't need to get too involved with additional header tanks/Coke bottles, invariably they end up falling off and spilling coolant all over the place. Its far easier and a lot less messy to simply brim fill the header tank, replace its cap, remove a bleed nipple then squeeze the top hose to create pressure sufficient to push trapped air out of the system. If after squeezing no coolant comes out, keep the top hose compressed and replace the bleed nipple then release the top hose and remove the header tank cap which will suck coolant into the area where air was previously trapped. Repeat this process until coolant can be pushed out of each bleed nipple by simply squeezing the top hose.

BTW I also find it good practice to vigorously squeeze the top hose repeatedly in order to dislodge any trapped air, try doing this first with the header tank cap removed then when coolant starts to overflow out of the header tank, with it on.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 22 Dec 2008, 11:01

I'm at home today Toby, if you can get it down here I'm sure we'll get it sorted. It's not possible on my MK2 but you didn't refit the 'stat backwards did you? That doesn't explain the lack of gauge reading though, that is a worry!

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 22 Dec 2008, 11:17

Unfortunately I am working today Mike - will be on the road all day doing deliveries (curse Christmas

)

The thermostat went in the same way as it came out.

May have to be after christmas now methinks

I think I do need some help with this one - funny how I managed the cambelt and waterpump yet this simple job has got me beaten

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 22 Dec 2008, 12:02

Feel free to contact me when you want to arrange a meet.

nick · Unread post by **nick** » 22 Dec 2008, 14:13

Toby_HDi wrote: The top hose does not seem to be getting hot - however, the temperature gauge is not moving either so this perplexes me further. I am seriously tempted to drain it again and reflush and start from scratch.

Possibly you've knocked the connector off the temp sensor whilst working?

Do bare in mind though that an HDi even fast idling at 1500 revs will take a long time to warm up enough to heat the top hose and begin registering on the temp gauge in this weather.

Have you noticed if the heater works?

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 23 Dec 2008, 00:02

nick wrote:Do bare in mind though that an HDi even fast idling at 1500 revs will take a long time to warm up enough to heat the top hose and begin registering on the temp gauge in this weather.

Have you noticed if the heater works?

Turn on headlamps, foglamps and Rear window demister, to load the alternator and hence the engine, while idling.
That will make a HDI heat up much faster.

Toby :
Removed the bleeds and pegged the studs yet ?
The allen key bleed screw is known to be a teaser.
Only if completely removed they will bleed in most cases.
No matter the engine has not yet heated up, I certainly dont like you are reporting that NOTHING - neither air nor coolant - comes out when you open the bleed

That is certainly not right.

Homer · Unread post by **Homer** » 23 Dec 2008, 05:53

Toby_HDi wrote: My milk carton is not really suitable. It doesn't fit into the expansion tank properly. What do other people use and how do you make it airtight. How do you keep it in position while you go about closing bleed screws etc?

I used to use a piece of plastic wastepipe with an old rag wrapped around it then jammed in the neck of the filler.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Dec 2008, 07:58

I've only ever had to use a header tank on a Saxo..

I used a 2L fizzy drink bottle with the bottom cut out and a Blu-Tak collar to form a good seal.

Blu-Tak, I find, is absolutely indespensible in the workshop and it finds literally thousands of uses