How many miles on the 'box itself? I'd be rather suspicious that someone's put the wrong fluid in there. You have checked the fluid level and colour, right?
A proper diagnostic tool (either dealer or aftermarket) will reveal the status of trans solenoids - a good pointer to what may be up.
Of course it's all fixable. People overrate auto boxes as black holes of funds and mazes of complexity. If you're going to walk away, make sure it's an economically justified position - not simply petulance.
With any secondhand car, you're usually wearing all the repairs the last owner deferred before they admitted to themselves they were "over" the car. It's a finite list and can be prioritised and worked through to give a solid, enjoyable vehicle with perfect reliability.
Regards, Adam.
Ebay listing Xantia 3.0 ,with faults
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f00lzz
- Posts: 795
- Joined: 28 Mar 2006, 19:30
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 54560
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- x 8083
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addo
- Sara Watson's Stalker
- Posts: 7098
- Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
- x 95
Everything in that trans that's hydraulically driven, is operated by solenoids or "electrovalves".
The other big difference between a modern auto and old tech autos, is that none of the operating decisions are made solely on the basis of accumulated hydraulic pressure or shaft speeds.
Myth #2 about autoboxes concerns the fluid. People talk about it having "friction enhancers" in a way that would make you think this is pumice powder or similar! But really, it's all about how certain fluids "drag" in conditions of close tolerances (kinematic viscosity) - responses vary greatly between fluid types and this is 100% intentional to suit the design of the box.
If you put the wrong fluid in, it may affect shift quality (quite probable) and may have a diminished temperature capacity - in other words it starts to break down at lower temperatures. All the modern boxes used by PSA generate pretty high temps, so old-tech fluids are bad news. Sadly, many garages don't fully appreciate this.
As to Jim's second poser - I don't think diode failure is the issue. The one I am familiar with via AussieFrogs is the AL4. One of it's biggest hassles was that early solenoids were pulsed by 50Hz current. (Pulsing avoids excess heat buildup or permanent magnetising.) These electrovalves were found to develop an unacceptable number of faults at 50Hz driven frequency, so they upgraded the ECU software to drive them at 100Hz. Replacement AL4 electrovalves only operate at 100Hz. I could imagine other trans like the 4HP22 having issues with pulsing, perhaps - but more likely the fluid type.
It's always worth spending a few bob at a competent dealer to verify the software version and its being up-to-date if this is unknown for your auto trans. Get them to print the diagnostic screen with these details on it, and include with the receipt.
Regards, Adam.
The other big difference between a modern auto and old tech autos, is that none of the operating decisions are made solely on the basis of accumulated hydraulic pressure or shaft speeds.
Myth #2 about autoboxes concerns the fluid. People talk about it having "friction enhancers" in a way that would make you think this is pumice powder or similar! But really, it's all about how certain fluids "drag" in conditions of close tolerances (kinematic viscosity) - responses vary greatly between fluid types and this is 100% intentional to suit the design of the box.
If you put the wrong fluid in, it may affect shift quality (quite probable) and may have a diminished temperature capacity - in other words it starts to break down at lower temperatures. All the modern boxes used by PSA generate pretty high temps, so old-tech fluids are bad news. Sadly, many garages don't fully appreciate this.
As to Jim's second poser - I don't think diode failure is the issue. The one I am familiar with via AussieFrogs is the AL4. One of it's biggest hassles was that early solenoids were pulsed by 50Hz current. (Pulsing avoids excess heat buildup or permanent magnetising.) These electrovalves were found to develop an unacceptable number of faults at 50Hz driven frequency, so they upgraded the ECU software to drive them at 100Hz. Replacement AL4 electrovalves only operate at 100Hz. I could imagine other trans like the 4HP22 having issues with pulsing, perhaps - but more likely the fluid type.
It's always worth spending a few bob at a competent dealer to verify the software version and its being up-to-date if this is unknown for your auto trans. Get them to print the diagnostic screen with these details on it, and include with the receipt.
Regards, Adam.
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fatherjack2002
- Posts: 116
- Joined: 21 Sep 2008, 18:17
- x 5
Hi folks, thanks for your input so far, to answer a few of the points raised by Adam and Jim,
The car/autobox has done just over 159K, with loads of recepts/ mots/ and the service book is stamped upto 149K, so effectivly near full service history, the prev owner has also kept a list of the work carried out up to the 159K , this includes gearbox oilchange , nearly £50's worth of oil, supplied by a main Citroen dealership , so i don't think that incorrect fluid is the problem, ( there is spare gearbox oil in the boot , i'll check tomorrow, and let you know what type it is ).
A local independant Citroen specialist ( ABC XM ) gave me the number of an autobox specialist, i've had a pretty in depth chat with him, and from the symptoms i described he's saying the it may be either an valve or clutch faliure, both of which involve a strip-down,hence the £300 labour cost quoted in my last post.
Jim you mentioned testing with a Lexia, unfortunatly i'm in the wrong trade ( joinery) and i don't realy know anyone in the mechanical trade to approach, which leads me back onto the original questio of asking if any forum member would be prepared to fit a replacement box for me ?
,
I don't realy think petulance comes into this situation Adam, putting in excess of £600 into a car which i paid £200 for 6days prevoiusly isn't economically justifiable, especially when a 1owner 70K sold for around £500 on Ebay a couple of weeks ago ,( please correct me if i'm wrong ,as i can't find the car on Ebay now, it was silver and located in Dumfries Scotland, if i recall correctly ) all i can really do is try to get e reasonably cheap replacement box & and someone to do the work for me ,as my mechanical skills are pretty limited
.
With reference to my options in the previous post , as Jim said if i went on option 4 there would be uprising of forum members decending on me , this was never realy going to be an option ,as i'm sure the car could find a good home within the forum...
Regards Paul................
P.S. are there any forum members here registered with the XM forum ? , as there is a member breaking a Xantia V6 on there , i've tried to register on the forum but for some reason my P.C. won't permit me to do so , if anyone could send the XMmember a PM on my behalf i would appreciate it, please PM me for more details..........Cheers Paul.........
The car/autobox has done just over 159K, with loads of recepts/ mots/ and the service book is stamped upto 149K, so effectivly near full service history, the prev owner has also kept a list of the work carried out up to the 159K , this includes gearbox oilchange , nearly £50's worth of oil, supplied by a main Citroen dealership , so i don't think that incorrect fluid is the problem, ( there is spare gearbox oil in the boot , i'll check tomorrow, and let you know what type it is ).
A local independant Citroen specialist ( ABC XM ) gave me the number of an autobox specialist, i've had a pretty in depth chat with him, and from the symptoms i described he's saying the it may be either an valve or clutch faliure, both of which involve a strip-down,hence the £300 labour cost quoted in my last post.
Jim you mentioned testing with a Lexia, unfortunatly i'm in the wrong trade ( joinery) and i don't realy know anyone in the mechanical trade to approach, which leads me back onto the original questio of asking if any forum member would be prepared to fit a replacement box for me ?
, I don't realy think petulance comes into this situation Adam, putting in excess of £600 into a car which i paid £200 for 6days prevoiusly isn't economically justifiable, especially when a 1owner 70K sold for around £500 on Ebay a couple of weeks ago ,( please correct me if i'm wrong ,as i can't find the car on Ebay now, it was silver and located in Dumfries Scotland, if i recall correctly ) all i can really do is try to get e reasonably cheap replacement box & and someone to do the work for me ,as my mechanical skills are pretty limited
.With reference to my options in the previous post , as Jim said if i went on option 4 there would be uprising of forum members decending on me , this was never realy going to be an option ,as i'm sure the car could find a good home within the forum...
Regards Paul................
P.S. are there any forum members here registered with the XM forum ? , as there is a member breaking a Xantia V6 on there , i've tried to register on the forum but for some reason my P.C. won't permit me to do so , if anyone could send the XMmember a PM on my behalf i would appreciate it, please PM me for more details..........Cheers Paul.........
1995 Xantia VSX 1.9 TD, RIP
N*ssan Pr*mera . HATING EVERY MILE
1994 Xantia LX 1.9TD, RIP
1997 Xantia desire 2 re-homed
2002 Pugeot 307 HDI (not quite a Xantia, but still French)
N*ssan Pr*mera . HATING EVERY MILE
1994 Xantia LX 1.9TD, RIP
1997 Xantia desire 2 re-homed
2002 Pugeot 307 HDI (not quite a Xantia, but still French)
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handyman
- Posts: 1107
- Joined: 20 May 2003, 18:38
- x 2
Hey Paul, I think you need to have a little word with Andrew! 
See his comment on 26th October. How did he know the gearbox would only last a week? 
I suggest he helps you fit a new gearbox free & gratis. 
If you want to keep the car, go for the option of getting a reconditioned gearbox fitted, as you will at least have the security of a guarantee. Only use a supplier listed with the Association of Motor Remanufacturers, as they should be verified. Also get some references about their work.
If you do not want to keep it, PM me.
Handyman
See his comment on 26th October. How did he know the gearbox would only last a week? I suggest he helps you fit a new gearbox free & gratis. If you want to keep the car, go for the option of getting a reconditioned gearbox fitted, as you will at least have the security of a guarantee. Only use a supplier listed with the Association of Motor Remanufacturers, as they should be verified. Also get some references about their work.
If you do not want to keep it, PM me.
Handyman
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andmcit
- Posts: 4299
- Joined: 03 Mar 2005, 17:59
- x 30
