A thought...

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Oct 2008, 00:56

I am getting increasingly fed up with having to pay between 10 and 15 pence a litre more for diesel than petrol. Talk about rip off

It got me thinking then, would it now be cheaper to run a small petrol car.

I think my calculations were correct and the other day I worked out if my HDi gives 50mpg and I bought a small petrol that could do at least 35mpg I would actually be saving. Especially as I would be looking at something post 2001 and so possibly finding something in VED Band B, as such paying £35 year rather than £185 as is the case now. I would be looking a something like a Clio/Fiesta etc. Anything up to a 1.6 really

Not only that, if I found something with a 6 cylinder petrol lump under the bonnet that would also tempt me with petrol as it is. Unholy thoughts of an ST220

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated

Thanks

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 26 Oct 2008, 05:55

Super unleaded down here is now 99.9p a litre, its still cheaper to run a diesel in my case but the difference has closed up and as i only use the car for private use that helps too.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 26 Oct 2008, 08:23

i was told that a C3 i belive 1.4 and around 03/04 returns 60 to the galion, and £35 a year road tax, you would be squids in,

what 6 cylinder car is within the engine size you mentioned,

regards malcolm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 26 Oct 2008, 08:35

citronut wrote:i was told that a C3 i belive 1.4 and around 03/04 returns 60 to the galion, and £35 a year road tax, you would be squids in,

I'd rather walk

reblack68 · Unread post by **reblack68** » 26 Oct 2008, 08:47

By my crude calculations (divide 50 by 1.15) a petrol car would need to do 43mpg to equal your Xantia's 50. You certainly won't get that in a petrol car as roomy and comfortable as the Xantia. I think you would get well over 60mpg from a diesel version of the small cars you are contemplating.

I don't drive diesels for the economy, I drive them because they require less effort to drive.

reblack68 · Unread post by **reblack68** » 26 Oct 2008, 08:49

citronut wrote: what 6 cylinder car is within the engine size you mentioned,

regards malcolm

I think he might be talking about a V6 Mondeo (Mundano) and screw the economy

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 26 Oct 2008, 10:11

How were we collectively fobbed off with this diesel only inflation rise
anyhow, seeing as we've all been guided over the years into this route?
Since when did it suddenly get a lot more expensive to make diesel?

The way I drive, I find it almost impossible to get good diesel economy out
of any of them I have, yet strangely don't feel a similar penanlty hooning
about in my petrol turbo's and V6's; petrol really does suit me better and
I much prefer the drive of one over a diesel. No I don't run my diesel on
shampoo and hair dye or wood polish or whatever else you guys use but
can show you a VSX TD Xant estate ruined by such silly penny pinching...

Andrew

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Oct 2008, 14:46

Thanks for the replies.

My calculations were based on diesel being about 1.12 a litre and petrol at 99.9 as that is the going rate down here.

While the Xantia is comfortable I do wonder if I could be just as comfortable in something slightly smaller. I also had the thought of a C4 as I know its not quite as small as a C1 or C2 and I hear they are generously equipped.

The 6 cylinder comment was me thinking aloud. It would be nice. I would consider a V6 Xantia but also had another Vectra or a Mondeo on my mind. Yes, it would be a 'screw the economy factor' thought.

andmcit - I agree, for years diesel has been touted as 'a good thing' due to its economy. However, now diesel is that much more expensive, the word profiteering comes to mind on the governments count.

Still in two minds about doing it though.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 26 Oct 2008, 14:58

We certainly appear to have our fab Government to thank for our plight
at the pumps. In the last (or one before) budget, buried in the BTW
comments and small print, the higher rate of taxation on Unleaded over
Diesel was mentioned and our lovely Chancellor opined the two fuels
should match one another as they cost the same to manufacture
(or somesuch piffle).

What they didn't exactly mention in so many words was they RAISED
the diesel price to match the rate levied on Unleaded (not lower the other).

This is on top of the 76% or whatever duty of tax on every litre...

What a fantastic group of public servants. You couldn't make this up!

Andrew

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 26 Oct 2008, 15:36

isnt diesel the waste product of petrol anyway, and the reason they put the price of diesel up, was because they whatched it becomming more and more popular,

regards malcolm

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 26 Oct 2008, 15:38

From the refineries it's more expensive than petrol as the refining makes less of it.
Used to be that it was taxed less, but as it became more popular the duty increased to match that of petrol, hence the price difference.
You've also got the idea that a diesel car isn't going to use as much fuel as a petrol and so won't be returning to the pumps as often, so to compensate it's priced higher.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 26 Oct 2008, 16:44

citronut wrote:isnt diesel the waste product of petrol anyway,

No, it's just one of the products of fractional distallation of crude oil Malcolm.

The top fraction is gas and the bottom one asphalt. In between that you have lighter fuel at the top, petrol, paraffin (jet fuel - kerosene), light (winter) diesel, normal diesel, heating oil, lubricating oil, thick stuff used by ships (bunker fuel) and finally, the black stuff we drive on top of after mixing it with a few stones.

That's a bit simplified but it gives the general idea.

So, diesel and petrol comes from much the same process and both need much the same post distallation treatment. Petrol needs octane boosters added, amongst other things, and diesel needs to have the sulphur in it removed as sulphur makes acid rain. Sulphur used to be a good pump lubricant but as they have to remove it by law they now have to put a lubricity additive in! So, on balance, petrol and diesel should be about the same price.

Xac, I think, has hit the nail on the head why diesel remains so much dearer

Toby_HDi · Unread post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Oct 2008, 19:27

Pretty good summary of fractional distillation there.

Basically yes, diesel is now priced higher due to its popularity, thats the laws of supply of demand for you.

So any further thoughts on what I should do?

reblack68 · Unread post by **reblack68** » 26 Oct 2008, 19:34

I can remember some years ago it was announced that diesel was A Bad Thing because of the particulates it produced. At the time it was the same price as unleaded petrol but they raised the tax to make it cost more. I'm sure in a subsequent budget it was announced that diesel was still evil and the price difference was widened.

telderv · Unread post by **telderv** » 26 Oct 2008, 20:12

it all depends on what you value more, a nice driving car or a few quid extra in your pocket, as for the c3, would rather take the bus