xantia head gasket

fangy · Unread post by **fangy** » 21 Sep 2008, 18:13

Hi, been stripping away for most of the day, everything's been pretty straight forward so far, I've been following the manual step by step. that's me ready to time the engine and take the cam belt off, the manual says to take off the cam sprocket, the auxiliary belt, the crankshaft pulley and many other bits and pieces, can the cam belt tensioner be loosened and the belt slipped off the cam shaft sprocket without removing everything else? It also says in the manual that to remove the engine mount first you need to put a trolley jack under the sump, but the engine will tilt backwards, does it tilt by much and is it just a matter of man handling it back into position for the rebuild?
Thanks,
Fangy.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 21 Sep 2008, 23:13

yes you do slacken the tensioner to release the cam belt, but if you do this without removing the other parts, you might have trouble setting belt timming back up corectly,

i usualy place a small block of wood on the trolley jack, and yes you can mnouver the engine very readaly whilst on the jack

regards malcolm

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 22 Sep 2008, 00:07

Talking of the vacuum pump, I was chatting to Jim about it earlier last week.
On one of the many occasions when I've had Cassy's off, if it's not refitted properly (it's a bugger to get the pump's tabs in the slot at the end of the cam shaft) then it leaks like buggery.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 22 Sep 2008, 07:16

Xac wrote:Talking of the vacuum pump, I was chatting to Jim about it earlier last week.
On one of the many occasions when I've had Cassy's off, if it's not refitted properly (it's a bugger to get the pump's tabs in the slot at the end of the cam shaft) then it leaks like buggery.

What does a Xantia do with a vacuum pump? I know I have one on the C5 but that is only because Peugeot buggered the braking system.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Sep 2008, 07:46

myglaren wrote: What does a Xantia do with a vacuum pump? I know I have one on the C5 but that is only because Peugeot buggered the braking system.

It's a sledgehammer to crack a walnut Steve,

All it does is provide vacuum to operate the EGR system and fast idle system

Both things the engine can happily live without entirely!!!

At least in the Peugeot bretheren, they provide the source of vacuum for the brake servo....

Removing the offending pump is a lot of trouble though.

fangy · Unread post by **fangy** » 22 Sep 2008, 18:27

Hi, I've hit a problem with this strip down, I can't get the crankshaft pulley off, I've tried what the manual says, top gear, foot on the brake plenty of wd40, but it's not for budging, does anybody have any ideas how to get this off? I'm I right in saying this only needs to come off to get the cam belt cover off? If so, worst case could I break the bottom piece that goes around the pulley to get it off?
Thanks,
Fangy.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Sep 2008, 18:39

The best method, Fangy, in a case like this is to use the starter motor.

Ensure the engine cannot start by say, not entering a keypad code or pulling the black plug on the pump, and then get a good 22mm socket and stout T bar. Put the socket on the crank bolt and jam the T bar under the front wishbone.

Car in neutral, give the starter a very short flick, just for a split second. This should jar the crank bolt sufficiently free to get it undone. Do ensure the socket and T bar are well placed so that it won't fly off when the starter runs. Don't worry if you hear a bang. That's the bolt freeing off and/or the T bar hitting the wishbone!

This method has never failed for me and I've used it loads of times. If the bolt does not free on the first "go", repeat. Some very difficult ones have taken me three goes. The vital bit is to not "run" the starter, just give it a very quick flick.

Maybe not practical now but it helps to undo this bolt with the engine hot. The normal reason for a bolt being tight is that an excess of the wrong sort of Loctite has been used and heat softens it.

Before you use this method, ALL engine mounts must be in place and tight.

It sounds brutal but it does work and is perfectly safe. I do only use it as a last resort when more conventional methods fail.

The only other alternative is a heavy-duty rattle gun.

fangy · Unread post by **fangy** » 22 Sep 2008, 19:23

Thanks, I'll get myself a good t-bar and give it a try,will i need to put the top engine mount back on first? Just one more thing, when i was taken the axillary belt off i noticed it was quite slack, the Allen bolt that faces down to the ground is completely rounded, can the belt still be tensioned without this or will it need to be replaced?
Thanks again,
Fangy.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Sep 2008, 19:32

Yes, the top mount MUST go back on and be tight before using the starter to jar off the crank bolt.

The Allen bolt is essential. They do get very tight for some reason (corrosion?). Take the whole assembly off, get the old bolt out and replace it with a new one. They're special as they have a shoulder on them. Your stealer should be able to get you one.

Check the tensioner rollers are good and replace if they are not 100%.

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 22 Sep 2008, 22:01

Mine (1.9TD) was so damn tight after 11 years that a 'rattle' gun screwed up to 160+ ft/lb made no impression. Like Jim, I resorted to using the starter: impact socket on the bolt with an 18" breaker bar resting against a big lump of wood on the floor. One flick - big BANG - bolt loose.

The crankshaft pulley bolts are known to break in service, so do fit a new one (only a couple of quid) with thread lock on final reassembly and torqued up to the correct figure.

Guy
_______

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 22 Sep 2008, 23:15

i have never heard of a crank shaft pulley bolt breaking, i think there would have to be some gross mall practise to cause a bolt of that diamiter to shear, or even just break, maybe from over tightening????

regards malcolm

fangy · Unread post by **fangy** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:47

Hi, got a breaker bar today, done what you said with the starter motor and the bolt came off no problem, but I'm unsure about the how to get the alloy engine mount off the engine, there's a bolt next to the camshaft sprocket and one next to the tensioner and there's a stud next to the other roller to the right (looking at it through the wheel arch) are these the bolts that hold the mount to the engine? There's also two bolts further down that hold a metal plate to the engine, do these need to come off? Is the roller near the front of the engine the idler roller? How does this come off, the manual's not very clear about this part of the strip down. Nearly there I think.
Thanks,
Fangy.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 25 Sep 2008, 18:59

Very close Fangy

There are four studs holding the engine mount to the side of the engine in a sort of diamond formation. One is quite buried, hard to see and needs to be attacked with a cranked ring spanner. All will come out easily enough if the engine is jacked up a bit.

The mount is dowelled to the head and thus has to be pulled off sideways. It will not pull upward. The dowel may come with the mount or stay in the head.

The mount has to come off to get the fixed tensioner off. The other tensioner will come free after removing the pivot bolt and pinch bolt.

If this is still not clear I'll post up some diagrams.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 25 Sep 2008, 21:21

fangy have a look at my blog as there are a couple of pics of engine side on etc.. may be buried well down, even in an 'older posts' section

useful things digitial cameras !

fangy · Unread post by **fangy** » 26 Sep 2008, 14:34

Hi, I've got another couple of questions about the engine mount, just so I've got it clear before I start taking bits off, I've used jgra1's picture of his engine.

http://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=belton2nc7.jpg

First of all the four studs holding the mount on, are these the ones with the yellow arrows?

Is the fixed tensioner the smooth wheel below the fuel pump sprocket?
and to get the other tensioner off, is it the two bolts with the red arrows?
When I take the tensioner of is the bit with the green arrow on a spring? Will it pop out?

and one last thing, do the two bolts with the blue arrows need to come off? are they holding the fixed tensioner on?

I hope all that makes some sense.
Thanks,
Fangy.

French Car Forum

xantia head gasket

Starter works when even an impact wrench fails