help!

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 12 Aug 2008, 19:09

i have just changed the engine in my 405 1.9td with a slightly older but well serviced unit up till now things have gone well new water pump ,timing belt ,clutch etc.
the problems left to sort are as follows,
the older engine was non aircon so the sump was changed to fit the compressor and various sensors changed over but the aux belt configuration is different and i forgot to take photos so does anyone have any? or could somone take some and send them to me please.
the replacement engine has a bosch pump the old one was lucas but it does not seem to have the black box as in the post on "changing the pumps"so i am assuming that this is a semi electronic unit i have pictures but being a computer numpty i cant get them in a post

so how do i wire the bosch pump up? if i have to remove the keypad i dont mind,so any clues?
finally i used the original wiring harness and it all fits well apart from one wire which comes from the glow plug relay and has a large lug on it and is quite a thick cable and is brown and i cannot remember where it goes and there is nothing glaringly obvious, so guys please help i need this car back on the road.
thanks in advance Robin.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 13 Aug 2008, 12:07

hi Robin..

re aux belt..

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_2fj8MH_LeQ0/S ... lt+pic.jpg

re Bosch pump, if yours has the throttle position sensor on (turret on top of pump with 3? brown wires) then you probably have a fuel stop solenoind hidden in the rear of pump.. there are some shear type bolts to drill.. search forum for this..

large wire sounds like feed to glow plugs, attach to glow plug 2 (from flywheel end)

hope that helps
John

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 13 Aug 2008, 12:16

oops got ahead of myself there... that was a Xantia belt config

has an extra pully... (at least one)

sorry

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 13 Aug 2008, 14:36

Hi Robin,

The diagram you've supplied for the aux belt is right for the 405 if my memory of my last 405 is correct John

In any case, it will be very little different - just no HP pump but a PAS pump instead...

The pump: if, as John says, it has a load pot on the top of the throttle spindle, it is indeed a semi electronic and it needs a matching ECU. I never encountered one in a 405 so maybe not. Another way to tell is if there is a round cover with wires coming out of it directly below the rotor head. This will be the electronic timing device. Semi-electronic pumps have three connectors on them. A blue one for the timing device, a black one for the immobiliser lump and a brown one for the load pot. A mechanical pump has two sockets. One for the stop solenoid and one for the cold advance electrovalve.

If the pump is a semi-electronic, it will not work properly without the matching ECU. It'll run very retarded and have no automatic centrifugal advance. You will be far better off putting the original Lucas on the new engine for now and going on the hunt for a fully mechanical Bosch.

A|ll you need to make the pump run is to energise the stop solenoid on top of the rotor head with a switched ignition feed.

If your old Lucas pump had an immobiliser, it can be transferred to the Bosch. It just wraps around and connects to the stop solenoid.

If any armour shielding needs removing, have it carried out by a pro. there is (in my opinion) a great risk of damage trying to do it yourself. They don't generally charge a fortune for the job.

Some pictures would be heavily useful Robin. Have a read of the guide Myglaren wrote in the sticky part of the Citroen forum...

Keep on the questions until it all works...

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 13 Aug 2008, 17:30

right i have read the sticky and have got as far as photobucket but no further than that i just cannot seem to work out how to upload to the forum

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 13 Aug 2008, 17:43

That's the hard bit done Robin,

From there all you should need to do is copy the IMG tags into the forum post and the picture should display....

EDIT: Below each picture in Photobucket you should see a box that contains text that looks like [ I M G ..... and ending [ / I M G with a web address between it. This is the IMG tag for that picture. Copy and paste the whole tag into your forum post and job done...

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 13 Aug 2008, 18:08

as the old saying goes its easy when you know how
i have included a couple of pics of the lucas pump partly dismantled for further clues

(edited to reduce picture size and rehost)

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 13 Aug 2008, 18:28

That's perfect

Pictures are far too big but I'll take copies, reduce them and re-host them for you.. At least it is very clear what is going on!

Right, your Bosch is a mechanical pump and all you need to do for now is run an ignition switched 12V feed to the stop solenod (its visible on top of the cast Rotor Head with a black and green wire going on to it). The stop solenoid takes very little current to operate it so you don't need a thick wire. That's all you need to do to make it run

later I'll tell you how to wire the cold advance up (on the brown wire on the Bosch Pump and what to do with the switch on top of it...

Your Lucas pump does have the immobiliser and that connects through the black plug on the Lucas pump. The immobiliser itself hides under the armouring on the Lucas but once that is off, the immobiliswer can be swapped over with ease.

I'm off now to reduce your pictures

The BoL will be in the post tomorrow

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 13 Aug 2008, 21:17

right immobiliser removed (5mins with a grinder and very sharp drill

) i have connected it up to the solenoid on the bosch pump and the key pad lights but then goes off also i am not getting all the dash lights coming on and when you turn the key the dash goes completely dead and then engine does not turn over at all . me thinks not all is well in the electrical department so some basic checks tomorrow but at least some progress has been made ,keep the info coming guys and now that i can do pictures you can have as many as you want

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 17 Aug 2008, 16:06

well progress has been made engine now runs and i have put back the power steering pump and alternator although still not convinced that they are in the right place! citrojim very kindly sent me a BOL altough it was for a petrol model it was a great help but i could still do with a diagram for the aux belt as try as i can it just will not fit so if anyone can help i would be very greatful as i really could use the car tomorrow.

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 18 Aug 2008, 19:03

still need a diagram of how the aux belt fits i have tried two different ways one is to tight the other leaves the belt too slack so PLEASE does anyone have one the can send me? i have even been around to the local garage and borrowed their book with all the belt configurations in it but still cannot get it right

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 18 Aug 2008, 19:08

Alas it's two years now since I had a 405 Robin

I've just looked in the Pug Diesel Engine BoL and that's no help either.

I wonder if you are using the right belt now?

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 18 Aug 2008, 19:53

its the same belt that came off! the only thing i can think of at the moment is that i have the pas pump in the wrong place and needs to be lowered hence the need for some pics or decent diagrams still we shall go and have another bash at it i the mean time if anyone can come up with a solution let me know !

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 23 Aug 2008, 15:24

it would seem from what little information i have got that it is the pas pump that i have got wrong so PLEASE PLEASE anyone who has a 1.9td with aircon take a few pictures of the pas pump mountings and brackets for me? i have been to 3 scrappys today and cant even get any clues from 406s,i have also spoken to 3 mechanics and they dont have ant diagrams either even went to the local pug dealer and while he could show me parts diagrams they were not much help!

citroen7 · Unread post by **citroen7** » 09 Sep 2008, 18:59

finally managed to get it all back together all be it i am not convinced it is exactly right.
Took the car for mot yesterday and the old b*****D was determined to find everything he could i knew somthing was up when 2 cars came in behind me left in front! so it failed on a few things 2 items of which were only done 12 months ago, those were the rear shocks and a front suspension bush the shocks i could not argue about as he showed me the readings on the computer so they will be going back to GSF but when i told him that all 4 wishbone bushes were done as well he was not for changing his mind
The other item was the regulating valve assembly the linkage was brokenso i have had a look and right enough it is now according to haynes it conects to the trailing arm BUT where?any pointers please as per usaul bol is no help
thanks Robin.