Grease for rear arm bearings ?

[Mandrake]

Hi All,

Just doing the rear arm bearings on my Xantia, and wondered on peoples thoughts about what grease to use ? I have here both LS-EP 2 (general purpose lithium grease that I use for all sorts of things - yellow/brown colour) and LMS-EP 23 which is a similar lithium grease with 3% Molybdenum Disulphide. (Charcol black colour)

Some of the reading I've done suggests that Moly grease is better for bearings carrying heavy loads with slow/stationary movement speeds - sounds just like a rear arm bearing to me.

Any suggestions ? Or is it a case of either one will do just fine and the difference wouldn't be that significant in this application...

Regards,
Simon

[alan s]

What about boat trailer grease?

Meant for loads and as a bonus is water tolerant, the main culprit in destroying swing arm bearings.
It's not really a problem in my cars as I modify them to take grease nipples so the grease in mine is renewed a minimum of a couple of times a year or if I get into a situation where they may have been contaminated, I just simply pump the old stuff out and replace with fresh stuff.


Alan S

[Peter.N.]

I dont think that the type of grease is as important as the quantity. The bearings usually fail because of lack of any sort of grease. When I replace mine I filll the whole inside of the tube with grease, never had one fail again, although to be honest I dont suppose i have done enough miles for them to fail again!

[AndersDK]

Your farmers all purpose tractor grease containing Molybdenum Disulphide strengthener will do perfect for all sorts of bearings.

Its not a big issue providing least possible friction, but as said best possible resistance to water ingress/mix.

[Mandrake]

Thanks all.

I ended up going with the moly grease, and really packing it in. There wasn't a great deal of wear in the bearings as it turns out - they were nowhere near failing, however they had significant wear patches in the cone at the spacing of the rollers, and they did had plenty of grease in them - of a red/yellow jelly kind...not exactly the kind of grease I would have chosen.

Despite there not being much wrong with the old ones the ride at the rear is quite obviously better - mainly I notice better stability at speed, no more hunting/oscillating up and down at the back over slow road undulations, it feels rock stable over undulating surfaces at high speeds now.

Regards,
Simon

[rory_perrett]

Simon

For interest how many miles (or Km) has your car done?

Regards

Rory

[Mandrake]

Simon

For interest how many miles (or Km) has your car done?

Regards

Rory

Hi Rory,

I've had it for 2 years now - it had done 141,000Km when I got it, it's now done 164,000Km. Very little visible wear in the bearings, and plenty of grease in them. In hindsight they probably could have done another 100,000 before failing - but a bit like a cambelt its hard to know that until after the job is already done...

Regards,
Simon

[rory_perrett]

Cheers Simon.

I used to have to do the bearing on my old BX every 100k miles but my current Xantia is at 210k miles and not showing any symptoms. However I'm getting a weird wear pattern on the nearside rear tyre which could be down to the rear tracking being out. Anyway I've decided to just do the arm bearings, was going to take them off an have a look before buying the bearings but then thought "what happens if I take them off and they are worn out and all the bits drop out", (as they did one time on the BX), no chance of getting it back together while I got the bearings. So bearings on order, a job for this weekend if they turn up in time. Any tips? I hope the Haynes BOL is about right and my experience with the BX will stand me in good stead.

Regards

Rory

[Mandrake]

Cheers Simon.

I used to have to do the bearing on my old BX every 100k miles but my current Xantia is at 210k miles and not showing any symptoms. However I'm getting a weird wear pattern on the nearside rear tyre which could be down to the rear tracking being out. Anyway I've decided to just do the arm bearings, was going to take them off an have a look before buying the bearings but then thought "what happens if I take them off and they are worn out and all the bits drop out", (as they did one time on the BX), no chance of getting it back together while I got the bearings. So bearings on order, a job for this weekend if they turn up in time. Any tips? I hope the Haynes BOL is about right and my experience with the BX will stand me in good stead.

Regards

Rory

Hi Rory,

I think if you've done BX arm bearings before then you know as much or more about it than me. (This was the first time for me)

The issues I encountered were:

* ABS sensors - you're supposed to unbolt these but even after removing the bolt they wouldn't budge, and after reading stories here of how easy they are to break, I decided to leave them in, and disconnect the cable instead, which was difficult to say the least.

I unbolted the ABS cable clamp on the underneath side of the arm, which gives you enough length to lift the arm out and stand it up on the ground while you retrieve the cable - there is a rubber gromit on the cable that attaches to the frame above the arm mounting, you can pull it through after disconnecting the plug. The plug is on the top side of the suspension chassis and has a wire clip that has to be removed, and it has to unclip from a plastic mount on the frame. The cable also goes through a cable tie which has to be slackened. Both extremely fiddly to get at but it saved me cutting the ABS cable. (I had to drop the muffler off its mounts to get at the left one)

* Getting the old bearings out - I found this very difficult too, to get the old bearing cones out - I had to use a hammer and screwdriver to destroy the plastic spacer in the middle before I could use a drift to tap out the cones from the opposite end. (otherwise you have nothing to tap against)

Make sure you retrieve the shim between one bearing race and the end cap and reuse it as it doesn't seem to be supplied in the SKG bearing kits.

Thats about it really, oh and getting the hydraulic cylinder in and out and getting its low pressure leakage pipes back in place was a bit of a swine too.

The whole job ended up taking me 3 days with a few hours each day, as I was working in cramped conditions...

Regards,
Simon

[rory_perrett]

Simon et All

Thanks for the info - job now done.

Managed to get the ABS sensors out in one piece. I tend to take the brake caliper off rather than disconnect the brake line when doing rear arms, this means taking the disc off to improve access to the abs sensor is very easy. However one (or both) obviously hasn't enjoyed the experience of being removed as the abs light is on. (bu@#*r!!!)

To get the bearing cones out I run a bead of weld round the inside and then lever them out with a flat blade - great method if you have access to a welder.

Must say after 200k + miles the bearings hardly looked worn, compared to the BX where they just fell out in 100 bits after 100k, some improvement in design must have taken place - don't think I will have to do them again.

Must say its an easier job on a BX!

Regards

Rory

[alan s]

Best idea I've yet come across for removing outer bearing cones on the BX was when I was at a mate of mines place and he's a retired engineer with a lathe sitting in his garage.
We were having problems getting anything to hook on the small lip protruding so quick as a flash, he grabs a vernier, takes a measure, grabs an old socket runs the micrometer over it, bungs it in the lathe and turned it down to a loose but neat fit in the arm via the outer cone on the other end. Hold it to one side using an old 1/2" drive extension clipped into the back of it and tap them out.
Takes 2 minutes to do.
Previously I've used the old weld trick and found that equally effective but the socket bit is much quicker if you can get a good fit.

Alan S

[Mandrake]

Hi Alan,

I did much the same thing - except I used a piece of heavy tube as a drift that was a bit smaller than the inner diameter of the bearing shell and tapped it out from the other end - it overlaps enough arc of the shell that you only need to alternate between two opposite sides to get it out. A couple of minutes tapping at most.

On my arms though it was still necessary to disintegrate and remove the plastic spacer first as the shell lip does not protrude beyond the plastic spacer - the opposite in fact. And the old plastic spacers were quite different to the new ones. (Old ones were ribbed, new ones weren't)

Regards,
Simon

[bxbodger]

The survival of the arm bearings seems to be completely random- mine are on 248000 miles now with no signs of wear, and I know they've never been done, yet some people seem to have them go at 100000 or less.

I wonder if they used different brands at different times, and some bearings were much better than others....I'd also imagine it depends on how good the fitter was on the line at putting in the seals. if the bearings greased properly, and the seals are fitted properly, there shouldn't really be any need to dismantle and replace them for the lifetime of the car.

The old BL hydragas system used a similar trailing arm set up with horizontal displacers, and that pivoted on silentbloc bushes, not a bearing in sight,so it's not as if there's huge loadings on them wearing them out-they don't work anywhere near as hard as say a front wheel bearing does.........c**p seals, I reckon.

Regarding grease..I'd avoid using a lithium grease- some of these react with the material, nylon or whatever it is, that the seals are made of, and cause them to fail, meaning the job'll need doing again soon.These black lithium greases are really meant for old-type chassis applications:pivots, shackles, handbrake balancers,that sort of thing and not bearings.

[citronut]

i always run two beads of weld at opposite sides of the inner race, not only dose this give me a driftting point but also heats the bearing up so it almost falls out, then i can reuse the plastic linner
regards malcolm